Francis: It's time for the Flames to get serious about bottoming out

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by stemit14

Give players big minutes with lots of opportunities in all situations. Do this over the next 2 years and we’ll have a better idea of what players like Zary or Posposil can be. Be fair to Kadri and let him know this is the plan over the next few years. He might not be the first guy over the boards in overtime/powerplays. If he still wants to stay knowing he’ll likely have a diminished role, then I guess they won’t be able to trade him but I wonder if he has a different view if he knew they were going to lean more on young players from now on.

I don't see it happening no matter how hard the tankers want it. Being crappy to one of your star vets to try to motivate him to leave is a bad way to manage your organization, especially when you are already a team that has been in a heavy rebuild over the last two seasons with him actively saying he doesn't want to leave. It is just a really bad idea.

If the young guys earn the play time over him then that is one thing but none of them are doing that.

Just respect his NMC and leave it at that. If the season falls apart bad enough maybe he will want out but chances are that he has no interest in moving to the US and he might just want to ride out his contract in Calgary and then retire. It's not like he needs to win a cup.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

The Flames traded 8 veterans for futures (picks and prospects). The great Montreal rebuild, which started with them trading a 1st and a 2nd for Dvorak and signing Hoffman as a UFA involved trading 6 players over a 2 year period. The great Habs rebuild traded fewer players and also involved trading futures to kick it off.

Hope that works for evidence for the 75th time on this board. Do you have any evidence that there is a team that did a bigger rebuild over a 24 month period than the Flames? I will await any team to be cited over a 24 month period that has burned it to the ground more than the Flames.

The actual problem is nobody (yourself included) has ever shown any data to counter the data that I have shared (and shared again here)

Out of thanks, but thanks!!


Until Conroy formally announces a rebuild, some people just won't agree that this is a rebuild. Maybe picking in the top 3 would convince some. I am not sure what will.

[really?]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Out of thanks, but thanks!!


Until Conroy formally announces a rebuild, some people just won't agree that this is a rebuild. Maybe picking in the top 3 would convince some. I am not sure what will.

I get the point, but if this team muddled along in 9th-10th place with guys like Andersson, Kadri, Coleman… withering in place would it truly be a rebuild? Dealing guys on expiring deals is a step, but at some point either tough decisions must be made or a harsh reality must be faced.

I’m led to believe all involved saw this day coming and this is just a step on the path of a build, but if the Flames were hoping to see veteran contracts age to a point where they were expiring in place then they were fueling themselves with hope, not working a plan.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by really?

I get the point, but if this team muddled along in 9th-10th place with guys like Andersson, Kadri, Coleman… withering in place would it truly be a rebuild? Dealing guys on expiring deals is a step, but at some point either tough decisions must be made or a harsh reality must be faced.

I’m led to believe all involved saw this day coming and this is just a step on the path of a build, but if the Flames were hoping to see veteran contracts age to a point where they were expiring in place then they were fueling themselves with hope, not working a plan.

Every rebuilding team has a few vets around. Kadri has a NMC. They are shopping Andersson and probably Coleman too.

And most rebuidling teams do wait for the expiry year to sell contracts because that's when they are marketable at the TDL, unless the contract is super team friendly.

[Erick Estrada]

https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/article/flame...am-struggling/

I will say stories like this worry me. It's only October 24th and while they have started poorly, it's early to be looking to make panic trades as this is an organization that needs to be pretty measured with their moves as they should be made with the future in mind, not the present. I hope it's just smoke.

[GioforPM]

I haven't seen a panic trade out of Conroy yet.

[Toonage]

Yeah the closest may have been Zadorov wanting out and even then he took a bit and managed a return on his terms. Even laying the foundation for a larger trade.

[really?]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Every rebuilding team has a few vets around. Kadri has a NMC. They are shopping Andersson and probably Coleman too.

And most rebuidling teams do wait for the expiry year to sell contracts because that's when they are marketable at the TDL, unless the contract is super team friendly.

Agreed, but there are team friendly deals that the team has been sitting on. It’s understandable because the team has been numerically competitive, but it’s looking like they’ve only prolonged the inevitable and delayed, and perhaps prolonged, the pain that comes with reshaping the roster.

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by Dx54

Francis is my GOAT. The GOAT.

If by that you mean he is an actual goat.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/article/flame...am-struggling/

I will say stories like this worry me. It's only October 24th and while they have started poorly, it's early to be looking to make panic trades as this is an organization that needs to be pretty measured with their moves as they should be made with the future in mind, not the present. I hope it's just smoke.

I don't think it's a coincidence that Francis (Flames mouthpiece) and TSN (Dreger connection) had two conflicting reports today.

My guess is team is gauging response to each path just to prove a bit of a pint that the high pick is what the fans want to Murray

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Yeah the closest may have been Zadorov wanting out and even then he took a bit and managed a return on his terms. Even laying the foundation for a larger trade.

He got a third and a fifth, not a great return by any means.

But I do believe he wanted Zadorov gone, and took what he could get.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/article/flame...am-struggling/

I will say stories like this worry me. It's only October 24th and while they have started poorly, it's early to be looking to make panic trades as this is an organization that needs to be pretty measured with their moves as they should be made with the future in mind, not the present. I hope it's just smoke.

Interesting I heard Frank on 960 today say that Conroynhad been active leading up to this start and now he is pressing pause on it. Different info from different insiders but Frank made it seem like Conroy was chasing scoring all summer and now that the team is nearly sunk they need to take a step back.

Basically he was advocating getting the vets traded quickly to continue to lean into this bad season. Says multiple difference makers at the top of the draft.

[fotze2]

The Flames are definitely bottoming.

[really?]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I don't think it's a coincidence that Francis (Flames mouthpiece) and TSN (Dreger connection) had two conflicting reports today.

My guess is team is gauging response to each path just to prove a bit of a pint that the high pick is what the fans want to Murray

The other thing, different sources (team, players, agents, other teams) may have different perspectives and are likely to have incomplete knowledge of what is happening at the ownership, management and player levels. Clearly Conroy is in the best position to gauge what is happening, but even his knowledge is limited by what others disclose or withhold.

I imagine Francis has spoken with sources outside of Flames management.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by really?

Agreed, but there are team friendly deals that the team has been sitting on. It’s understandable because the team has been numerically competitive, but it’s looking like they’ve only prolonged the inevitable and delayed, and perhaps prolonged, the pain that comes with reshaping the roster.

What team friendly deals? Andersson maybe but they aren't sitting on that one. They shopped him before and will do so again.

Coleman and Kadri are market deals at best.

[really?]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

What team friendly deals? Andersson maybe but they aren't sitting on that one. They shopped him before and will do so again.

Coleman and Kadri are market deals at best.

Coleman is on a good deal for what he brings. Kadri is market at best, and I think this is a real issue at this point. I know the consensus is he’s a Calgary guy, but he’s a professional hockey player and I don’t imagine he signed up for this. There was smoke around him this summer and much like with Markstrom, it would be naive to believe it’s all team generated. Dealing him involves interesting possibilities, but it’s not an easy contract to move.

[Strange Brew]

Surely the Flames would eat money on a Kadri deal with their cap situation if it meaningfully helped the return.

[really?]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Surely the Flames would eat money on a Kadri deal with their cap situation if it meaningfully helped the return.

Absolutely agree it’s good business and the proper way to treat a guy who agreed to something other than a restructure, but that said it makes a deal more difficult than simply opening the door and waving goodbye.

[Jiri Hrdina]

It's worth noting that Francis is one of the few media members that has a level of direct access to Murray.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Out of thanks, but thanks!!


Until Conroy formally announces a rebuild, some people just won't agree that this is a rebuild. Maybe picking in the top 3 would convince some. I am not sure what will.

I think for some they'll just pivot to something else to complain about.