October 6 - So it Begins - The Alberta Teacher Strike

[GGG]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

Serious question: what professionals actually get paid for overtime outside of nursing?

I've had a career spanning the public and private sector and have never been paid overtime. If I have to work a stat holiday, Ive gotten time-and-a-half in lieu. But I don't think I've worked a job that Averages less than 45 hours a week since entering the professional field (and the lower number was when working for the government).

EPCs(Engineering design companies) typically get straight time for billable hours in excess of 40 a week. The EP makes money as long as they have budget in the project as the hours are just sold on a multiplier of salary. They actually make more in those cases because benefits and overheads are constant. So they much prefer to have people straight time than higher more staff. Producers get kick ass bonuses in exchange for that flexibility.

[Point Blank]

Originally Posted by Arsenal14

Don't forget - the teacher stays until the last student is picked up. So when a parent is "running late" that teacher is stuck at the school. It's shocking how often that happens.

Absolutely. I’ve once had a parent arrive 1.5 hours late! My principal gave them an earful after she found out which I appreciated.

Extracurriculars are so much fun and it embodies what teachers go into teaching for. But between parents arriving late, parents getting on my case about play time, submitting incident reports every time an athlete gets hurt, and dealing with students with bad attitude (especially soccer) it’s almost like another job. And now I have to make sure all the girls have 2 X chromosomes.

My guess is Marlaina wants to legislate us back to work, and wants us to halt all extracurriculars just to contrast us with what private schools can offer.

[Derek Sutton]

The phased approach to classroom caps is great in theory, but logistically impossible to control or implement in the proposed time frame. More EA’s in every classroom is the most reasonable, efficient and economical solution, but certainly not a “union favourable” solution. With the ATA refusing mediation, the province with starve the teachers out until many will have no choice but to accept a contract because they need to be paid.

Personal anecdote, young next door neighbours both husband and wife are teachers, four and two years in the job. And not to get too much into their finances, but, well going a full month with no paycheques will take them months to recover. He told me two months no paycheques will take them a year to catch up.

[Looch City]

How could it even be called "mediation" if the government forces the discussion NOT to include the very reasons for this strike in the first place?

It's asinine.

[malcolmk14]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

The phased approach to classroom caps is great in theory, but logistically impossible to control or implement in the proposed time frame.

Compensate teachers for classes where the caps can't be met.

Think about it any other professional context. You're responsible for 21 projects and compensated accordingly. Your boss comes to you and says, "Sorry, but it's logistically impossible to hire someone else to deal with these other 8 projects, so I'm going to give them to you."

What's fair?

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by malcolmk14

Compensate teachers for classes where the caps can't be met.

Think about it any other professional context. You're responsible for 21 projects and compensated accordingly. Your boss comes to you and says, "Sorry, but it's logistically impossible to hire someone else to deal with these other 8 projects, so I'm going to give them to you."

What's fair?

So a few things about this. The first is that your response makes it about money, not education quality. And I cannot name a career, job or industry where having to do more with less is not common, it is not about fairness but about doing what you have to do to keep your job, often does not come with any additional compensation.

And really it is not about fairness at all. Does a grade three teacher in Hanna with 12 kids in their class and few complexities deserve the same pay as a grade 8 teacher in Calgary with 30 students in their classroom with many complexities? Probably not, no that is not fair, however that is the reality.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by malcolmk14

Compensate teachers for classes where the caps can't be met.

Think about it any other professional context. You're responsible for 21 projects and compensated accordingly. Your boss comes to you and says, "Sorry, but it's logistically impossible to hire someone else to deal with these other 8 projects, so I'm going to give them to you."

What's fair?

In a non-union work environment it typically is fair. There are many situations where employees get more to do without more pay. Sometimes it is short term like covering for a co-worker who is sick or on vacation. Sometimes it is long term due to poor planning or downsizing. The beauty of a non-union environment is that in most situations the employee can talk to their Manager(s) and try to get extra resources, they can ask for a raise for taking on more responsibility or they can go work somewhere else if they don't like it.

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

The phased approach to classroom caps is great in theory, but logistically impossible to control or implement in the proposed time frame. More EA’s in every classroom is the most reasonable, efficient and economical solution, but certainly not a “union favourable” solution. With the ATA refusing mediation, the province with starve the teachers out until many will have no choice but to accept a contract because they need to be paid.

Personal anecdote, young next door neighbours both husband and wife are teachers, four and two years in the job. And not to get too much into their finances, but, well going a full month with no paycheques will take them months to recover. He told me two months no paycheques will take them a year to catch up.

Impossible? Maybe. Come to the table with something that is possible. A different time frame or a different formula. The class caps are not impossible. We know that.

Of course the reason it is hard is because of the way this government has acted. Failure to build tax base, failure to build revenue through investment, failure to budget, failure to diversify.

If their posture with teachers is to starve them out, it will be yet another failure. Albertans like yourself with neighbours and possibly children that our government has become embattled with should be outraged. The election is not that far away.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

So a few things about this. The first is that your response makes it about money, not education quality. And I cannot name a career, job or industry where having to do more with less is not common, it is not about fairness but about doing what you have to do to keep your job, often does not come with any additional compensation.

Personal anecdote, young next door neighbours both husband and wife are teachers, four and two years in the job. And not to get too much into their finances, but, well going a full month with no paycheques will take them months to recover. He told me two months no paycheques will take them a year to catch up.

And I'm sure Danielle is just devastated that she's causing families to have to suffer like this. Yes, she truly cares about people.

[The Big Chill]

The timeline isn’t possible so the gov’t just flat out says no to negotiating. What about coming back with their own timeline? Making excuses for them is beyond ridiculous.

They’ve said delivering national averages is asking for the moon. They’ve made their position on public education very clear, and they have no intention of supporting it in any meaningful way.

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by Major Major

Impossible? Maybe. Come to the table with something that is possible. A different time frame or a different formula. The class caps are not impossible. We know that.

Of course the reason it is hard is because of the way this government has acted. Failure to build tax base, failure to build revenue through investment, failure to budget, failure to diversify.

If their posture with teachers is to starve them out, it will be yet another failure. Albertans like yourself with neighbours and possibly children that our government has become embattled with should be outraged. The election is not that far away.

In response to your last sentence, is a short term contract not in the table? Like get a two year deal then negotiate with the new government after the election?

[Point Blank]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

The phased approach to classroom caps is great in theory, but logistically impossible to control or implement in the proposed time frame. More EA’s in every classroom is the most reasonable, efficient and economical solution, but certainly not a “union favourable” solution. With the ATA refusing mediation, the province with starve the teachers out until many will have no choice but to accept a contract because they need to be paid.

You’re right, it’s too much too fast. But I think part of the bargaining process is asking for more to settle for less, though they aren’t even willing to entertain the idea of classroom size caps.

In any case, they can definitely starve us out, but then the government shouldn’t go all surprised pikachu face when they have a hard time retaining and attracting teachers for the next 4 years.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

In a non-union work environment it typically is fair. There are many situations where employees get more to do without more pay. Sometimes it is short term like covering for a co-worker who is sick or on vacation. Sometimes it is long term due to poor planning or downsizing. The beauty of a non-union environment is that in most situations the employee can talk to their Manager(s) and try to get extra resources, they can ask for a raise for taking on more responsibility or they can go work somewhere else if they don't like it.

The beauty of a non-union environment is having the bare minimum for rights and the option to go work somewhere else if you don’t like the job?

As opposed to having more than the bare minimum of rights and the option to go work somewhere else if you don’t like the job?

[Fuzz]

Before the election I pondered that there would have to be very few healthcare workers and teachers that would vote UCP, because it would be self flagellation to do so. I didn't think the UCP could win if both of those groups and their spouses didn't support the UCP. But a more than minor share must have done so for the UCP to have gotten elected. Now I wonder if they've learned their lesson. But there is no guarantee waiting it out for two years gets them any further ahead, and they have to deal with probably five more years before any fix starts to materialize. So no, I don't think waiting is a strategy for anything but more misery.

[Point Blank]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

In response to your last sentence, is a short term contract not in the table? Like get a two year deal then negotiate with the new government after the election?

We all know the outcome in 2 years. UCP also knows which is why they act with impunity.

A Sept 28 poll on 338Canada saw a grand total of a 5 point dip for the UCP…but that wasn’t gained by the NDP. It was gained by the Alberta Republican Party. I’d be interested to see the effects of this strike, but doubt it’ll move the needle much.

Danielle’s biggest threat aren’t teachers who were already going to vote for NDP, it’s the far right separatists.

[malcolmk14]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

In response to your last sentence, is a short term contract not in the table? Like get a two year deal then negotiate with the new government after the election?

A two year agreement would expire in less than 10 months. We've been negotiating for over a year.

[malcolmk14]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

Sometimes it is short term like covering for a co-worker who is sick or on vacation. Sometimes it is long term due to poor planning or downsizing. The beauty of a non-union environment is that in most situations the employee can talk to their Manager(s) and try to get extra resources, they can ask for a raise for taking on more responsibility or they can go work somewhere else if they don't like it.

These things are also true of teachers in schools.

[flamingreen]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

So a few things about this. The first is that your response makes it about money, not education quality. And I cannot name a career, job or industry where having to do more with less is not common, it is not about fairness but about doing what you have to do to keep your job, often does not come with any additional compensation.

And really it is not about fairness at all. Does a grade three teacher in Hanna with 12 kids in their class and few complexities deserve the same pay as a grade 8 teacher in Calgary with 30 students in their classroom with many complexities? Probably not, no that is not fair, however that is the reality.

You can't think of a single job in which overtime is paid? Weird.

And that teacher in Hanna is probably teaching 3-4 grades at one time because they can't fill all the open teaching positions at the school - so it probably ends up being a wash with the urban teacher.