October 6 - So it Begins - The Alberta Teacher Strike

[Ashartus]

Originally Posted by Wolven

Let's GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

https://recallnicolaides.ca/

Makes me wish I was in Calgary Bow.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by Ashartus

Makes me wish I was in Calgary Bow.

Me too.

I would hope that some veteran petition signers from the Forever Canadian petition would be in that area and would take on another cause to save our province.

The next best thing would be to hope that some experienced petition signers would come out and help/mentor people in the area in the best ways to get signatures.

For me, I'll look at donating money or maybe volunteering time to help canvassers set up booths in the area or even drive them around the community... I don't know what would be most helpful.

Setting up a permanent booth near that West Springs Tim Hortons / Co-op grocery store might be a strong location. Also in the Pie Junkie parking lot - people love pie!

https://open.alberta.ca/dataset/db6a...ped2017_03.pdf

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by Wolven

Let's GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

https://recallnicolaides.ca/

Contacted, can’t wait to sign.

[GullFoss]

I had lunch with a teacher today. Was super interesting getting the perspective, even if it's anecdotal and just the perspective of 1 out of 50,000 educators.

1) he said anecdotally, every teacher he talked to was fine with the pay offer of 12%. He said the final number over four years comes in between 12%-18%. The outlier numbers within this range were possible in a mediated solution, while a negotiated outcome comes in somewhere in the middle (14%-16%). He suggested any accepted offer in the range was fair. He suggested the province does not want to risk 18% via a mediated solution, so they have an incentive to reach an agreement sooner than later.

2) said it sucks not to be at work because he likes his job and routine. Said the first couple weeks don't really matter as much for student outcomes, but after that it's almost impossible to catch up. He said this gives the ATA pressure to get a deal done.

3) he said a lot of teachers - including himself - don't actually have a recollection of what normal class sizes are like because this is all they know. He said it's not a left vs right issue, but that education has been underfunded for over a decade and it was going to reach a breaking point in terms of lack of physical space and class sizes if the province doesn't get a handle on it. Too many getting bussed, not building enough schools

4) he seemed to think the lower class sizes wouldn't make a huge difference in terms of pure "teaching" or reduce their hours spent at work, but it would allow them to spend more time providing guidance to kids who need it. So in his head, it's more about "doing the job they want to do" rather than reducing their work load. That said, he note he's a junior high teacher, which involves a lot of guiding. He suggested maybe at the younger grades the smaller class sizes would be more about teaching.

5) he said it's about getting aides for special needs classes and reducing class sizes. Not really one or the other, but about getting both and putting them where they need them most.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

I had lunch with a teacher today. Was super interesting getting the perspective, even if it's anecdotal and just the perspective of 1 out of 50,000 educators.

1) he said anecdotally, every teacher he talked to was fine with the pay offer of 12%. He said the final number over four years comes in between 12%-18%. The outlier numbers within this range were possible in a mediated solution, while a negotiated outcome comes in somewhere in the middle (14%-16%). He suggested any accepted offer in the range was fair. He suggested the province does not want to risk 18% via a mediated solution, so they have an incentive to reach an agreement sooner than later.

2) said it sucks not to be at work because he likes his job and routine. Said the first couple weeks don't really matter as much for student outcomes, but after that it's almost impossible to catch up. He said this gives the ATA pressure to get a deal done.

3) he said a lot of teachers - including himself - don't actually have a recollection of what normal class sizes are like because this is all they know. He said it's not a left vs right issue, but that education has been underfunded for over a decade and it was going to reach a breaking point in terms of lack of physical space and class sizes if the province doesn't get a handle on it. Too many getting bussed, not building enough schools

4) he seemed to think the lower class sizes wouldn't make a huge difference in terms of pure "teaching" or reduce their hours spent at work, but it would allow them to spend more time providing guidance to kids who need it. So in his head, it's more about "doing the job they want to do" rather than reducing their work load. That said, he note he's a junior high teacher, which involves a lot of guiding. He suggested maybe at the younger grades the smaller class sizes would be more about teaching.

5) he said it's about getting aides for special needs classes and reducing class sizes. Not really one or the other, but about getting both and putting them where they need them most.

Gullfoss randomly had lunch with a teacher on Thanksgiving Sunday whom had evidently never previously expressed their feelings on this topic to gully.

[Geraldsh]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Gullfoss randomly had lunch with a teacher on Thanksgiving Sunday whom had evidently never previously expressed their feelings on this topic to gully.

I gave Gullfoss credit for listening and reporting back to us. Evidence of a closed mind opening.

[Whynotnow]

He’s right it’s not a left vs right issue, since the right has ruled this province almost completely without interruption it is a right issue.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Gullfoss didn’t actually said he agreed with the teacher, just that he talked to one.

That teacher’s view is entirely consistent with what most of us have been saying.

[Point Blank]

Originally Posted by Geraldsh

I gave Gullfoss credit for listening and reporting back to us. Evidence of a closed mind opening.

Yes, although nothing he said wasn’t already said in this thread by teachers, some people need to talk to a person face to face about it. He did that instead of dropping ignorant comments and then disappearing which is better than what others are doing.

Originally Posted by Whynotnow

He’s right it’s not a left vs right issue, since the right has ruled this province almost completely without interruption it is a right issue.

To be fair, teachers accepted a wage freeze under Notley. However, this was because working conditions under her were much more manageable and there was good will with the government.

Since then, inflation has been crazy, and working conditions got worse. The working conditions became worse because the booming population is strongly attributed to UCP’s “AB is calling” campaign, and then not building the infrastructure to support it. That plus bad will because they rammed a new and impossible curriculum through and imposing a million standardized assessments from K—3. Now elementary teachers have to teach a developmentally inappropriate curriculum to an overcapacitated classroom, with less instructional time due to the sheer amount of assessments that have to implement.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Point Blank

Yes, although nothing he said wasn’t already said in this thread by teachers, some people need to talk to a person face to face about it. He did that instead of dropping ignorant comments and then disappearing which is better than what others are doing.



To be fair, teachers accepted a wage freeze under Notley. However, this was because working conditions under her were much more manageable and there was good will with the government.

Since then, inflation has been crazy, and working conditions got worse. The working conditions became worse because the booming population is strongly attributed to UCP’s “AB is calling” campaign, and then not building the infrastructure to support it. That plus bad will because they rammed a new and impossible curriculum through and imposing a million standardized assessments from K—3. Now elementary teachers have to teach a developmentally inappropriate curriculum to an overcapacitated classroom, with less instructional time due to the sheer amount of assessments that have to implement.

I can’t remember, but wasn’t it under the Redford PCs that we had an elementary class size maximum of 17 kids? I’m pretty sure that was the case.

[malcolmk14]

Originally Posted by Slava

I can’t remember, but wasn’t it under the Redford PCs that we had an elementary class size maximum of 17 kids? I’m pretty sure that was the case.

Those were recommended limits but never enforced.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by malcolmk14

Those were recommended limits but never enforced.

I feel like my kids were in elementary at that time and we were seeing class sizes around those figures though?

[malcolmk14]

Originally Posted by Slava

I feel like my kids were in elementary at that time and we were seeing class sizes around those figures though?

Maybe. I started teaching at the end of Redford’s term. I’ve had anywhere from 19 to 31 kids in grades 5 and 6. When I taught grade 3 for two years I had 23 and 31. Anecdotal I know. The class size data is out there until 2019 when the UCP stopped collecting data.

[malcolmk14]

This is an interesting study done in 2023 by the ATA

https://teachers.ab.ca/sites/default...2024-02-14.pdf

[GullFoss]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Gullfoss randomly had lunch with a teacher on Thanksgiving Sunday whom had evidently never previously expressed their feelings on this topic to gully.

Pretty much. People love talking with me.

I mostly found it interesting because he had really good color around the teacher's ask: 18% over four years + 5000 teachers. Province offer: 12% over four years + 3,000 teachers

If I was a basic biatch, I'd suggest they end up at 15% + 4000 teachers.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

Pretty much. People love talking with me.

I mostly found it interesting because he had really good color around the teacher's ask: 18% over four years + 5000 teachers. Province offer: 12% over four years + 3,000 teachers

If I was a basic biatch, I'd suggest they end up at 15% + 4000 teachers.

I would suggest 15% and the number of teachers is generated by a formula based on the number of kids.

Based on the formula, the number is likely going to be more than 5000 teachers over 3 years because of the speed in which the population is growing. 5000 might be good today but if the population goes up another 5% then that 5000 needs to go up too.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

Pretty much. People love talking with me.

I mostly found it interesting because he had really good color around the teacher's ask: 18% over four years + 5000 teachers. Province offer: 12% over four years + 3,000 teachers

If I was a basic biatch, I'd suggest they end up at 15% + 4000 teachers.

It’s not that simple. It’s 18% for some, it’s far less for others.

They’re standardizing the pay grid across the province. The average is 12. It isn’t enough IMO. Should start a recall petition for all UCP MLAs, not just the education minister. This gov sucks, worst in AB history, and message needs to be sent.

[Point Blank]

I don’t even know why they’re putting in hiring teachers as a CBA item. They already have a funding formula based on enrollment growth. It should be gradual rollout of classroom size caps as we are only one of two provinces without classroom size caps.

[malcolmk14]

The 3000 - 5000 new teachers is a non-starter. Where are you finding 5000 people who are banging down the door to teach here? It's not happening. Even if it's written into the collective agreement, there just simply aren't that many people who want to teach here.

[malcolmk14]

Assuming we're out of school the next two weeks and back working on the 27th, I'll have given up $7,810 of salary.

If the result is 15% instead of 12% and some promise of teachers who will never show up I will be extremely disappointed.