Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Why not? These are ranked relative to each other, not out of 10. 10th just means the worst out of the 10 countries. The US having the worst (or near worst)access to care, admin efficiency, equity, and health outcomes out of these 10 countries all make sense.

Because its silly to get bogged down in the rankings, and saying 7th out of 10 implies 'below median' performance.

The takeaway here is that we are competitive with other big + prosperous + western nations, while the US generally sucks. In the one category where the US demonstrates strength, we are already within spitting distance of them. Therefore, we should be very cautious about doing anything that steers us towards their practices.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

Since you suggested it, I briefly looked at the system in Finland and it would be great to hear your opinions on their interesting take on private schools but it doesn't seem like something you would want to support. Their private schools are publicly funded and non profit, operate under a government curriculum and provide specialized programs, don't charge tuition and have limited enrollment (honestly sounds very similar to our charter schools.) Do you promote the Finnish approach to private schools?
https://www.aacrao.org/edge/emergent...ted-in-finland

Truthfully, they are closer to the goal than Alberta has ever been. Which is certainly something to aspire to, especially by making the need for private schooling obsolete by building the public education system up so strongly. It does make me interested to get into the nuts and bolts of what their few private schools are seeking to accomplish based no how the system is structured.

Before one could say that they promote the Finnish approach to private schools, you would need to assert that you are following how the Finnish handle public schools.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by simmer2

11min of time I won't get back in my life listening to Eby, I'll pass.

I wonder when he'll figure out that you have to make money somehow to pay for all the lovely social initiatives he has...and that lovely debt he managed to accumulate in record time.

A pipeline to the coast would...shockingly, create more tax revenue. But I guess that's too hard for him to figure out.

Spoken like a true 'Berta ditchbilly.

To recap: Eby is talking about how Smith already has a pipeline, how that pipeline is under capacity and how there is room to optimize the capacity of it before demanding ANOTHER pipeline.

At the same time he is promoting LNG projects that are real and established and points to the fact that Smith is interfering with these real projects and putting billions of dollars of investment at risk. I don't know how LNG is moved... is it a pipeline to the coast??!?

Unlike Smith, Eby sounds like a Premier who is protecting the real interests of his province and industries and is backing up his stance with facts. He is also pointing out that Alberta has just received a free pipeline at the huge expense of taxpayer dollars and that if there are more taxpayer dollars up for grabs, he and the other Premiers have projects that should be considered ahead of another Alberta pipeline.

If you really want to boil the message down, it would be: Alberta should appreciate what they have and wait their turn before sticking their hand out again for free mega projects.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Wolven

Truthfully, they are closer to the goal than Alberta has ever been. Which is certainly something to aspire to, especially by making the need for private schooling obsolete by building the public education system up so strongly. It does make me interested to get into the nuts and bolts of what their few private schools are seeking to accomplish based no how the system is structured.

Before one could say that they promote the Finnish approach to private schools, you would need to assert that you are following how the Finnish handle public schools.

Without a deep understanding and/or first hand experience of the Finnish system it is tough to accurately evaluate what they are doing but a few things stand out to me that are encouraging which are that their teachers are required to have Masters degrees and they are highly valued within the society and as a result teachers take pride in their position even though they are apparently undercompensated within the public sector in Finland. They appear to have a lot of autonomy in their roles which is something that I support.

Some of the recent outcomes are concerning within the system though as reported here:
https://okm.fi/en/-/the-bildung-revi...present-moment

Decline in achieved learning outcomes
Proficiency in reading and mathematics strengthened in Finland from the 1960s to the 1990s, reaching the international top in the learning outcomes assessments conducted in the late 1990s and early 2000s.

Internationally speaking, the decline in achieved learning outcomes, which began in the early 2000s, has been exceptionally rapid in Finland, and the drop in reading and mathematics proficiency observed in several studies corresponds to the learning attained in one year – even two years, according to some research data. Despite the notable decline, young people’s achieved learning outcomes are still good in international comparison, as indicated by many international assessments.

Differences in learning outcomes related to social background have become more pronounced than earlier. Moreover, the differences between genders are exceptionally large from an international perspective, and have continued to increase in the 21st century.

Decrease in the level of education
The Finnish population’s level of education has been decreasing for a few decades. Those born in 1978 are the most highly educated age group. Today’s 30-year-olds are unlikely to ever reach a level of education corresponding to that of people born in 1978. However, the favourable development in the initiation of higher education studies, seen in the latter part of the 2010s, has led to those under the age of 28 being more highly educated in 2020 than in 2010. It looks as if the age groups born in the 1990s may end up having a higher level of education than those born at the end of the 1970s.

[simmer2]

Pipeline “under‑capacity” is misleading.

The Trans Mountain Expansion (TMX) is barely a year into operation. Shippers have been testing it steadily—actual throughput always starts below nameplate capacity.

Much of that space is already contracted long‑term; the system is not sitting empty. The ramp‑up and testing phase doesn’t mean Alberta doesn’t need more capacity in the future.

Oil sands production continues to grow modestly every year.

Planning multi‑billion‑dollar pipelines requires looking 10–20 years ahead, not today’s temporary utilization rates.

Re Alberta and free handout. Alberta didn’t get a “free” pipelineTMX was originally a private project that Ottawa bought after political opposition and regulatory gridlock—mostly from B.C.—scared off private investors.The “taxpayer‑funded” part was the result of political interference, not Alberta asking for a handout. Alberta companies still pay tolls and taxes to ship their product like any other customer.Alberta taxpayers also contribute more to federal revenues than any other province—by billions annually—so calling the pipeline “free” ignores fiscal reality.

[troutman]

https://www.cbc.ca/listen/live-radio.../clip/16174100

Oct. 7, 2025
For the past decade, Canadians have been split 50/50 on new pipelines — that has changed. Two recent opinion polls found three quarters of eligible voters in Canada want at least one new pipeline built to export more fossil fuels. Yet, 70 per cent of people consider climate change a serious threat. IDEAS producer Tom Howell explores the incompatibilities and future scenarios.

[Flacker]

Originally Posted by simmer2

Pipeline “under‑capacity” is misleading.

The Trans Mountain Expansion (TMX) is barely a year into operation. Shippers have been testing it steadily—actual throughput always starts below nameplate capacity.

Much of that space is already contracted long‑term; the system is not sitting empty. The ramp‑up and testing phase doesn’t mean Alberta doesn’t need more capacity in the future.

Oil sands production continues to grow modestly every year.

Planning multi‑billion‑dollar pipelines requires looking 10–20 years ahead, not today’s temporary utilization rates.

Re Alberta and free handout. Alberta didn’t get a “free” pipelineTMX was originally a private project that Ottawa bought after political opposition and regulatory gridlock—mostly from B.C.—scared off private investors.The “taxpayer‑funded” part was the result of political interference, not Alberta asking for a handout. Alberta companies still pay tolls and taxes to ship their product like any other customer.Alberta taxpayers also contribute more to federal revenues than any other province—by billions annually—so calling the pipeline “free” ignores fiscal reality.

There is lots of optimization to be done. More pumps, which will require some additional power infrastructure in the interior, and dredging the Second Narrows, so that Aframax tankers can actually depart more than 70% loaded. This is the low hanging fruit to more barrels to tidewater, why isn't the Alberta government pushing for that? Oh right because it is a federal project, and they can't be seen as collaborating with the feds. Ideology over progress, very much what this current government is about.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

These days there are as many tax payers without children as there are with.

If your attitude is I pay taxes so I think some of that can fund my kids private education...I guess you're okay with childless people not paying any taxes toward education too?

If that's how it plays out a low birthrate will only fall if everyone with children has to send them to some form of private school. Which is great if you're a union worker or other CP profession making 120 to 300k a year with a spouse earning that. White trash tax bracket like me...w might have to sell our kids to the rich if we want a useless highschool education for them.

Do you actually think the average Union worker is making over $120k a year?

I guess my follow up question would be if they hypothetically were, why the #### wouldn’t you have joined one by now instead of complaining on an internet message board about how much better you think they have it compared to you?

I agree with your overall point though about people’s misconceptions about tax dollars going to public education should justify tax dollars going equally to every education system.

[para transit fellow]

I am baffled why Alberta isn't considering exporting more "DruBit" to the USA

Apparently, one CPKC DRUBIT train leaves Hardisty each day, bound for Louisiana refineries. The dilutant is extracted at Hardisty and the bitumen heated to load into a tank cars.

Without the dilutant, the bitumen is generally not considered to be a hazardous material (for transportation purposes)... it won't easily ignite, and if spilled, can be recovered with shovels. (yes, a spill into a water body would still be tricky).

We apparently already face shortages of dilutant to ship bitumen through pipelines. wouldn't another bitumen pipeline mean even greater need for scarce dilutant products?

Is this only a niche transportation solution?

[Sr. Mints]

Originally Posted by Slava

Wait, are you suggesting it's faster than that? I understand that in one case, someone had theirs done sooner, but this was not even close to my wife's experience. First, they take every angle to try to talk you out of the surgery in the first place. Then you get referred to the surgeon, and the appointment there is somewhere around the 15-18 month mark. Then, you have to wait until the surgery.

I understand that this is "elective" because it's not life-threatening or things of that nature. But the impact on people's quality of life cannot be debated either. And this is the issue with that system today. We have these elective surgeries that people want done, because the problems they're having are an enormous impact on their lives, despite that surgery being "optional". I put those words in quotes because it is questionable how optional those surgeries are for the individual. You can live without the knee replacement, you just happen to be in your forties and can't walk down a flight of stairs easily or a slight incline. So, you're not dying from this, and I suppose that is why it's elective.

Woah, not my experience at all.

I'm getting surgery in a few weeks, which would be 13.5 months after buggering my knee, and four months after the surgical referral. But yeah, they tried cortisone, then some kind of acid injection, then an option for a pair of PRP injections was presented, but I expressed my doubts and concerns if those would work if the others only offered a few day/weeks relief, so the referral went out late June. Plus the wait times to get the shots was weeks to months.

I suspect what sped things up with getting into the sports medicine doc was paying for an MRI last fall. I'd still be waiting for that (Oct 2025 was my date!!), and don't know if I'd even have been seen by a sports doc yet had I not jumped on that. Seems to be a huge bottleneck there.

Meniscus repair, for what it's worth.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by simmer2

Pipeline “under‑capacity” is misleading.

The Trans Mountain Expansion (TMX) is barely a year into operation. Shippers have been testing it steadily—actual throughput always starts below nameplate capacity.

Much of that space is already contracted long‑term; the system is not sitting empty. The ramp‑up and testing phase doesn’t mean Alberta doesn’t need more capacity in the future.

Oil sands production continues to grow modestly every year.

Planning multi‑billion‑dollar pipelines requires looking 10–20 years ahead, not today’s temporary utilization rates.

Re Alberta and free handout. Alberta didn’t get a “free” pipelineTMX was originally a private project that Ottawa bought after political opposition and regulatory gridlock—mostly from B.C.—scared off private investors.The “taxpayer‑funded” part was the result of political interference, not Alberta asking for a handout. Alberta companies still pay tolls and taxes to ship their product like any other customer.Alberta taxpayers also contribute more to federal revenues than any other province—by billions annually—so calling the pipeline “free” ignores fiscal reality.

That is the Alberta point of view. Try and think about it from the BC point of view, or any other Canadian outside of Alberta. Alberta getting a federally funded pipeline when no other province is getting federally funded pipelines is how the other provinces view the situation.

I know this is hard to do, but maybe you should take a moment to listen to someone else's point of view and try to internalize it instead of ignoring it and pretending you know better. I mean, you couldn't even watch an 11 minute video to get informed on how BC's government feels about your pipe dream.

TMX is barely even up and running and Smith is already demanding more and saying "Canada is broken" if she doesn't get her demands met. Absurd.

Maybe Alberta should focus on optimizing what they have and shut up for a minute (not Smith's strong suit). Also, Carney is taking a swing at getting Keystone XL going, we could probably wait to see if that starts up again before demanding something else, especially since we already have billions invested in that dead pipeline.

It would be pretty ironic to have each of Trudeau and Carney build Alberta a pipeline with all of the ditchbillies here hating them to such a degree that they need to get "F" bumper stickers as a part of their outward facing identity. At what point do Albertans start loving these Liberal PMs? How much do they need to help our province to change the mindless hatred into appreciation?

[FacePaint]

Originally Posted by simmer2

Alberta taxpayers also contribute more to federal revenues than any other province—by billions annually—so calling the pipeline “free” ignores fiscal reality.

Why lie? Ontario and Quebec taxpayers contribute more to federal revenue than any other province-by billions annually. That is the fiscal reality.

[curves2000]

Originally Posted by Wolven

Spoken like a true 'Berta ditchbilly.

To recap: Eby is talking about how Smith already has a pipeline, how that pipeline is under capacity and how there is room to optimize the capacity of it before demanding ANOTHER pipeline.

At the same time he is promoting LNG projects that are real and established and points to the fact that Smith is interfering with these real projects and putting billions of dollars of investment at risk. I don't know how LNG is moved... is it a pipeline to the coast??!?

Unlike Smith, Eby sounds like a Premier who is protecting the real interests of his province and industries and is backing up his stance with facts. He is also pointing out that Alberta has just received a free pipeline at the huge expense of taxpayer dollars and that if there are more taxpayer dollars up for grabs, he and the other Premiers have projects that should be considered ahead of another Alberta pipeline.

If you really want to boil the message down, it would be: Alberta should appreciate what they have and wait their turn before sticking their hand out again for free mega projects.

I think AB, Smith, Carney and Canada are kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place. If you take everything and look at it holistically, we as a country really need to look at serious economic reforms. When Carney says our relationship in trade with America is effectively severed, he means it.

Canada has really really fallen behind in a lot of aspects with poor policy. Poor policy on energy, including oil, gas, clean, green etc. Poor policy on immigration, associated levels of immigration and integration of those said immigrants. Business confidence, how Canada is viewed globally as a business leader and a place to do business have all taken a hit. This is a national problem, all Canadians are at fault and all politicians are as well.

Canada can't afford to play the game of a product that the world consumes at a rate of 2000 barrels a second not being sold in maximum volume. Canada, including AB can't afford to play the game with clean/green energy and turning away billions and trillions in investment from domestic and international sources. We just can't continue to rely on what we are doing, we need to do things smarter, more efficient, more business friendly and revamp our industrial and economic messages. I am a true blue AB Conservative but have immense respect and admiration for Carney. He get's things that actually matter business wise.

The energy industry has kinda been shifted away from the penalty box in the last little while so to speak and we need to grow and expand that. We need to do more with all forms of energy domestically and exporting internationally We need the investments, the employment, the capital and the growth. We need to shy away from mostly trade with US and hope for the best.

These inter provincial trade barriers and economic bickering between provinces needs to stop and we need to grow business brains. Can you imagine regional leaders in France bickering over expansion of aviation exports to Canada? "We don't need to send more $200 million planes to people in Canada"

I don't recall seeing too much opposition to German and Japanese automotive exports or much bickering about top industry exports from other countries. Here in Canada we literally bicker and impede things down to swashed grapes in the form of wine. Heck, we can't even compete in the NHL and bring home winners. It's like we are a country of perennial losers who are blessed with resources but can't figure it out.