Forever Canadian Petition Support (Alberta Politics)

[RoadGame]

Originally Posted by Wolven

From page 2 of the thread:


Originally Posted by Smartcar View Post
If anyone is downtown/beltine looking to sign I have my credentials, you can sign at my business (17th Ave and Macleod) I’m usually there 10-5:30 weekdays - if I’m there I can come out and get your signature, you don’t even have to get out of your car ��

PM me for details.

I signed at this location and it couldn't have been easier. In and out in a couple minutes.

[WideReceiver]

That town hall had some really terrible questions, such as “I got my credentials but why no petition sheets?” You’re supposed to watch the instructional video.

I’m door knocking now. While the reception is positive, I’m finding several separatists. One woman: “I’d rather have Trump than Carney.” Seriously, WTF. She says she doesn’t watch news or pay attention. Well duh.

One woman signed and said her husband will be home soon if I wanted to come back. He was home within five minutes and chased me down the street—to sign.

Lots of signatures and good conversations.

[indes]

Signed last week when I walked past a table set up in my neighbourhood. Really hoping this petition pulls through, enough is enough.

[GoinAllTheWay]

Originally Posted by indes

Really hoping this petition pulls through, enough is enough.

The organizer seems to think they'll get enough signatures but I'm a bit disappointed it's not there already by a landslide.

[Robbob]

That is my question, is the plan to use all the time and submit over and beyond the threshold or just submit when they meet that 300k mark.

[Amethyst]

Originally Posted by Robbob

That is my question, is the plan to use all the time and submit over and beyond the threshold or just submit when they meet that 300k mark.

They will submit as many as they can get before the deadline. They want the message to be as strong as possible, plus they are expecting some signatures to be disqualified.

Also: No one has submitted signatures yet, except people who are going away (out of the country, etc), so they really don't know how many they have at this point. The first submission period is the end of September.

[WideReceiver]

Originally Posted by Robbob

That is my question, is the plan to use all the time and submit over and beyond the threshold or just submit when they meet that 300k mark.

I think we’ll blow past 500,000. Lukaszuk wants 600,000 or 700,000, numbers that are possible. The more the better. Send a strong message to Dani and the separatists. We’re not taking our foot off the gas. I’m collecting signatures every f’ng day.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Wolven

The rules are actually pretty clear on this and what happens should the petition be successful:


Policy Proposal
1. The Speaker of the Legislative Assembly shall lay the proposal before the Legislative Assembly if it is then sitting, or if it is not then sitting, within 15 days after the commencement of the next sitting.
2. Within 10 sitting days, the Government shall bring forward a motion to have the proposal referred to a committee of the Legislative Assembly.
3. Within 90 days if the Assembly is sitting, or within 15 days after the commencement of the next sitting, the committee may either table a report with respect to the policy proposal at the earliest practicable opportunity or table a report recommending the policy proposal be referred to the Lieutenant Governor in Council for the purpose of a referendum.
4. A referendum must be held on or before the fixed date of the next provincial general election. If that date is less than one year after the date the recommendation is tabled, the referendum must be held before the provincial general election following the next provincial general election.

There have been rumblings of an early election...the main reason I've heard is to do it before the ridings are adjusted with 2 additions (though IIRC UCP was trying to put their finger on the scale for how that would go, but in any event it should mean 2 more ridings in the cities).

It looks like the initial report will come in October 2025, but presumably it would be several more months before its fully implemented
https://abebc.ca/

The Alberta Electoral Boundaries Commission is required to review Alberta’s electoral boundaries and provide an initial report to the Legislative Assembly by October 2025. The Commission is required to hold public hearings prior to providing its initial report and after the report has been made.

And this referendum could be more reason for them to pull the trigger on that, particularly before the first 3 steps have happened. But even after the first 3 steps, this implies they could hold an election without the referendum, which only needs to happen before the 'fixed election date': Oct. 18 2027. I think they'd be less likely to do such a brazen move (though I feel silly typing anything that gives the UCP any assumption of sanity), but I doubt they want this referendum tied to a general election at all.

I think they'd just campaign on saying they would hold the referendum ASAP, so it being a separate event really neuters the turnout. Which would be really really disappointing.

Then again the looming teacher strike probably argues against an election. Or maybe they come with a shockingly generous offer/pledge on class size etc for a pre-election spin.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

There have been rumblings of an early election...the main reason I've heard is to do it before the ridings are adjusted with 2 additions (though IIRC UCP was trying to put their finger on the scale for how that would go, but in any event it should mean 2 more ridings in the cities).

It looks like the initial report will come in October 2025, but presumably it would be several more months before its fully implemented
https://abebc.ca/



And this referendum could be more reason for them to pull the trigger on that, particularly before the first 3 steps have happened. But even after the first 3 steps, this implies they could hold an election without the referendum, which only needs to happen before the 'fixed election date': Oct. 18 2027. I think they'd be less likely to do such a brazen move (though I feel silly typing anything that gives the UCP any assumption of sanity), but I doubt they want this referendum tied to a general election at all.

I think they'd just campaign on saying they would hold the referendum ASAP, so it being a separate event really neuters the turnout. Which would be really really disappointing.

Then again the looming teacher strike probably argues against an election. Or maybe they come with a shockingly generous offer/pledge on class size etc for a pre-election spin.

I don't think the UCP will let the Forever-Canadian question go to referendum. More likely they would let it go to committee where the decision would then be to dismiss the question because the report would show that Alberta should absolutely stay in Canada and it does not make sense for the government to put that question on the ballot. (The referendum only works if it is a 'people led' question)

As much as the UCP are willing to flirt with separatism and support the people driving it to referendum, it is a very different thing for the UCP to outright declare in legislature that they are separatists. That is a level of political suicide that I think they are trying to avoid.

As for the new ridings, yes, I think the UCP is interested in an election before those ridings are put in place. However, I thought they were still trying to steal those ridings from the big cities and put them in rural areas to "reduce the driving time of MLAs" or something equally stupid. It goes hand in hand with their gerrymandering plan for Lethbridge and really reinforces the idea that we should simply convert the province over to a proportional representation government. It makes no sense for a vote in slave lake to have 3 times the voting power of a vote in downtown Calgary.

[Engine09]

Just when I make a post calling Facebook a disgusting, worthless sewer I run across a post by someone canvassing for the Forever Canadian petition very close to me tomorrow.

Made a reminder in my calendar and will be heading over to sign.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Wolven

I don't think the UCP will let the Forever-Canadian question go to referendum. More likely they would let it go to committee where the decision would then be to dismiss the question because the report would show that Alberta should absolutely stay in Canada and it does not make sense for the government to put that question on the ballot. (The referendum only works if it is a 'people led' question)

As much as the UCP are willing to flirt with separatism and support the people driving it to referendum, it is a very different thing for the UCP to outright declare in legislature that they are separatists. That is a level of political suicide that I think they are trying to avoid.

As for the new ridings, yes, I think the UCP is interested in an election before those ridings are put in place. However, I thought they were still trying to steal those ridings from the big cities and put them in rural areas to "reduce the driving time of MLAs" or something equally stupid. It goes hand in hand with their gerrymandering plan for Lethbridge and really reinforces the idea that we should simply convert the province over to a proportional representation government. It makes no sense for a vote in slave lake to have 3 times the voting power of a vote in downtown Calgary.

It will definitely be interesting to see how they handle it. While this has been a uniting issue for people across many different spectrums, the outcome that satisfies folks is an interesting question. I wonder if most people will take no referendum (ie the prevention of a referendum) as a sufficient 'win' here. While those of us more engaged would like to see a clear and strong policy adopted, or a referendum where the issue gets stomped out emphatically.

But I worry there is a lot of leeway for them to quietly bury this into obscurity while satisfying the letter of the law:

3. Within 90 days if the Assembly is sitting, or within 15 days after the commencement of the next sitting, the committee may either table a report with respect to the policy proposal at the earliest practicable opportunity or table a report recommending the policy proposal be referred to the Lieutenant Governor in Council for the purpose of a referendum.

Where a report leads to an amendment to the Alberta Bill of Rights (or whatever makes sense) along the lines of:

Whereas a long and rambling preamble that says nothing of substance, the following is to be added : Albertans are Canadians.

Spoiler!

The other thing on the election front is that apparently an interim report on the MHCare scandal comes on Sep 24. Who knows how much if anything the public gets to see, but if there is any indication that their dubiously designed investigation is going to blow up in their face, maybe they try to get ahead of it, too. I doubt they'll trade in 2 more years of security (particularly when the party brass knows they can just revert to the old playbook of blaming+punting Marlaina before the election.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

It will definitely be interesting to see how they handle it. While this has been a uniting issue for people across many different spectrums, the outcome that satisfies folks is an interesting question. I wonder if most people will take no referendum (ie the prevention of a referendum) as a sufficient 'win' here. While those of us more engaged would like to see a clear and strong policy adopted, or a referendum where the issue gets stomped out emphatically.

But I worry there is a lot of leeway for them to quietly bury this into obscurity while satisfying the letter of the law:

I would be satisfied with this whole topic disappearing. IMO, it feels like a waste of time to have a referendum about whether or not water is wet.

On the other hand, if they put it on the ballot, that would be a great reminder to everyone that the UCP are with the separatists and more and more people would likely vote against the UCP because of the link to the separation question on the same ballot.

Either way, I think as long as the Forever-Canadian question is in motion or in committee or preparing to go to referendum, it would be impossible to allow the other question to go through. If the UCP tried to allow the separatist question past the Forever-Canadian question it would open the UCP up to a lawsuit.

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

The other thing on the election front is that apparently an interim report on the MHCare scandal comes on Sep 24. Who knows how much if anything the public gets to see, but if there is any indication that their dubiously designed investigation is going to blow up in their face, maybe they try to get ahead of it, too. I doubt they'll trade in 2 more years of security (particularly when the party brass knows they can just revert to the old playbook of blaming+punting Marlaina before the election.

I think the ego on the UCP is such that they think they have this province rigged. They are going to grift their way through the next 2 years and expect full support, even as their supporters suffer from the decisions that they make.

I wonder how many more towns need to burn down or how many rural hospitals and schools will need to close before the ditchbillies clue in that the UCP doesn't give a care to their plight...