Israel declares war on Hamas

[Firebot]

A good read on the opinion piece by David Paperny I just linked above

What we are seeing in Gaza is not Tikkun Olam. It is a Chillul Hashem – a desecration of God’s name. (Do I even believe in God? Most days I’m not sure. But I believe in humanity, and this is as profound a desecration as I have witnessed.)

The past 22 months have been an agony and a mind warp. I watch as women, men and children are killed by bombs, buried in rubble, shot dead awaiting aid or killed fetching water. I turn to the leaders of my community for guidance for leadership.

And what do I get? Condemnation of Oct. 7, 2023. Concern for the hostages. And, for the most part, utter silence on the suffering of Gaza.

The more we conflate the Israeli government with Israel, the more we conflate Israel with Jewry, the more those who abhor the actions of the Israeli government will blame Jews.

What would address this? Action on the part of Canadian and American Jewish leaders. In fairness, there are Jewish organizations speaking out. I salute them. I wish they were louder and we gave them the respect they deserve.

Major Jewish organizations won’t say this, so I will: Mark Carney, please demand action from Israel. The joint statement urging the end of the war and more aid was a good first step. Keep demanding an end to this murderous aid blockade – and back that demand up with the threat of economic sanctions.

I speak for myself, but I know I am not alone in feeling this way. There are other Canadian Jews – Zionists, even – who are aghast at what is unfolding and long for a community conversation. Many are rendered silent for fear of being labelled self-hating Jews or worse. There’s fear of fomenting antisemitism, that ever-present spectre.

I understand this silence. But I can no longer abide it. We are witnessing horrors, and have no choice but to speak out.

I still cling to the Jewish values I espoused as a youth. It is the state of Israel that has abandoned them.

Condemning Israel actions in Gaza isn't antisemitic in itself.

[MrButtons]

Ruh Roh (sorry if shared already)
https://www.euronews.com/2025/08/04/...pation-of-gaza

"We [will] implement (President) Trump's plan, it is a good plan and makes a difference, and it means something very simple, that the residents of Gaza who want to leave can leave," Netanyahu said, referring to a proposal floated by Trump of resettling all of Gaza's population in other countries.

[Looch City]

How could any sane person defend such a regime at this point?

[ResAlien]

Originally Posted by Looch City

How could any sane person defend such a regime at this point?

I have wondered to myself lately why those who were blanket defending Israel have abandoned the discussion entirely. I assume one may pop up and say they got tired of being told they were supporting genocide so they stopped participating but it has definitely been a noticeable change

[Barnet Flame]

Originally Posted by Looch City

How could any sane person defend such a regime at this point?

It ha been a while since any person here has defended the Israeli regime.

Even the most hawkish have fallen silent.

[activeStick]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1952557352093422065

[Party Elephant]

Originally Posted by Barnet Flame

It ha been a while since any person here has defended the Israeli regime.

Even the most hawkish have fallen silent.

Yeah no kidding, Beninho alone would do like 50 posts of genocide justification per day, did he get banned or grow a conscience?

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by MrButtons

Ruh Roh (sorry if shared already)

https://www.euronews.com/2025/08/04/...pation-of-gaza

"Israel is another country. "


"No, not like that!"

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Party Elephant

Yeah no kidding, Beninho alone would do like 50 posts of genocide justification per day, did he get banned or grow a conscience?

In fairness to Beninho, there was an acknowledgement.

Originally Posted by Beninho

Completely fair comments. I have spent a good amount of time re-evaluating my own stance on this conflict and while I still disagree with certain language you and others use to describe what is taking place in Gaza I have no want for Israel to continue operating in Gaza and subjecting innocent Palestinians to awful conditions. I stay out of this thread as I feel uncomfortable with the current Israeli government and the direction Israel is taking as a country. I do not have much to add besides that but this situation really upsets me as it would be sad if my Israeli family members, who want this war to end and have actively protested Netanyahu for years, now have to be careful where they speak Hebrew and who they tell they are Israeli to when travelling abroad.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

In fairness to Beninho, there was an acknowledgement.

Beninho is absolutely the last one I would pick to throw in that group. He's acknowledged biases and showed an openness to new view points. If all of us were capable of that - well, there wouldn't be a war in the first place.

[Party Elephant]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

In fairness to Beninho, there was an acknowledgement.

Fair enough, I guess I've been checked out of this thread for a while so I missed that.

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by Party Elephant

Fair enough, I guess I've been checked out of this thread for a while so I missed that.

I’m only highlighting this because I was mentioned, not looking for applause, just lightly defending myself and the positions I’ve taken for a while now.

I initially apologized back on page 337. That was in May 2024, still around seven months after October 7th. 10/7 was obviously traumatic, and I’ll admit I became unhealthily obsessed with debating and arguing about it in the months that followed. I really needed to take a step back and remind myself of the humanity on the other side of this conflict.

I no longer argue about this online. These days, I only talk about it with close family, many of whom live in Israel. That said, I still check this thread pretty regularly. It’s hard not to when I’m here reading about the Flames anyway.

I do agree with a decent amount of what’s been said in this thread over the past year and a bit. But I’ve also noticed some comments that, at times, veer into generalizations about Israelis, and a few that I felt were xenophobic. There’s no question that there’s a deeply problematic coalition in power in Israel right now, with a minority of religious zealots holding together Netanyahus extremely delicate coalition. They have far too much influence and this is not an uncommon view in Israel. It is a major downfall of the proportional representative system. I’ve made my views on them clear, as have many Israelis. You can see protests in Israel nearly every day. Protesting for the hostages and against the government. The Likud party has also veered further right and I am be no means placing only blame on the religious factions but just that they are by far the most extreme.

In my view, there are good and bad people in every society. The continued demonization of all Israelis as bloodthirsty monsters, in my opinion, only strengthens the Israeli far right. The constant referencing and widespread circulation of a few poorly conducted polls has already done damage, and unironically, I think, helped push Israeli public opinion further in the wrong direction. I think this piece in Haaretz explains the pitfalls of these polls and the lack of context surrounding them:
https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/2025...7-3dde468d0000

And for the record I also find the polling of Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank to be poorly done and misleading too.

I recognize that I’m in a privileged position to say this, but I try to limit the amount of news and content I consume about Israel/Palestine. A lot of the discourse gives me intense anxiety and distracts me from living my actual life. I also can’t pretend to look at everything going on through a completely unbiased lens. My personal connection to it makes the amount of anger and negativity on the news and online, justified or not, very overwhelming.

That said, my views are largely aligned with pro-peace activists like Palestinian advocate Ahmed Alkhatib, and I also find myself generally in agreement, though not entirely with Israeli activist Rudy Rochman. Another voice I appreciate is the Israeli Instagram creator @thatsemite who’s actually a family friend. He’s fluent in Arabic and has hosted many insightful conversations with Israeli Arabs and Palestinian creators. One of his recent videos is here:
[https://www.instagram.com/reel/DMxrC...Y0bGJ6dnY0ZTJ1)

For my own sanity, I only really engage with content and discussions between Israelis and Palestinians that aren’t fuelled by anger or attacks, but instead aim to foster understanding and ways were there could be a future of peace and dignity for everyone in Israel, Gaza, and the West Bank.

I thank those who have recognized my own complicated journey regarding this subject.

Hope the next time I am back in this thread is for a ceasefire agreement.

Peace.

Edit: sometimes you need a subscription to the Haaretz articles so here is another non-paywalled link to it.
https://jfjfp.com/that-alarming-poll...ce=chatgpt.com

[GullFoss]

Originally Posted by Firebot

Seeing literally the first headline this morning on G&M with the first picture being "A Palestinian girl carries a container of water amid shortages in Deir al-Balah Tuesday.", along with an opinion piece from a Jewish Canadian speaking about the horrors in Gaza as the 2nd, I don't see how you can come to that conclusion unless you are actively pushing a certain narrative.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/worl...-gaza-through/

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opin...out-about-the/

As for the word "genocide" no article will say that word unless it is quoted shouldn't come as a surprise. Not too different from the CBC and attributing "terrorism" to Hamas (who I believe also isn't using the word genocide except when quoted or attributed to an official statement).

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/con...licy-1.6997926

Canada has also officially not declared it a genocide at this time.

From chatGPT: The Globe’s favorable editorial stance toward Israel — even amid growing international consensus around war crimes and potential genocide — likely reflects a systemic bias rooted in Western institutional loyalties, elite class perspectives, and reputational risk aversion.

It's not always intentional propaganda, but rather a structural form of bias embedded in how major Western media interpret “legitimacy,” “security,” and “violence.”

1. Western foreign policy alignment frames Israel as “our ally”; critical coverage is muted

2. Elite editorial culture with bias toward state actors and liberal democracies

3. Lobbying & access pressures. Editorial caution; limited critique of Israeli policy

4. Fear of antisemitism accusations may drive avoidance of accurate legal terms like “genocide” or “apartheid”

5. Lack of Palestinian representation leads to skewed narratives and overrepresentation of Israeli viewpoints

6. Institutional inertia - Resistance to changing long-standing editorial norm

[Firebot]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

From chatGPT

Are you purposedly dumb on this topic?