US Citizenship

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Shazam

Oh well that settles it then.

Hey have you read the FIRE book by Quan? He got a job at Facebook after school. It started at $500K/yr.

Whatcha making now?

I actually did a year of school in the Bay Area and FAANGs are recruiting the top of the top schools for those big paying jobs. There are still good opportunities in the US but that guy is an outlier. Some people killed it by picking the right start up and others did okay.

The US is definitely better if you have the ability to be in the top of your field

[Locke]

How old are your kids? Are they prepared to grab a rifle and stand a post?

They'd probably wind up fighting for Russia against Ukraine though....

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

America is unique in that regard. They are the richest nation of all time.

Canada is still a very modern G7 economy with plenty of opportunities, even if it doesn't exactly match the opportunities in the US.

It all depends on where you sit on the economic spectrum. I'm a Canadian on a work visa in the US and have been here a few years. Based on what I have seen, it's much better to live in Canada if you're poor to upper middle class.

For most Middle-class people - Health care costs, Education costs and insurance are the big-ticket items that cost more in the US (While federal and State taxes are lower than Canada you have to factor in higher local taxes if you want to live in a decent school district). For poorer folks all of the above also applies, but also there's much more government help and social programs in Canada and the bureaucracy is much easier to navigate in Canada (I believe the big reason why there's different attitudes towards government's involvement in everyday life between the countries is due to this. US federal and state governments are the height of incompetence and useless manual processes.)

Once you're in the range of US$200k/yr and up there's infinitely more opportunity in the US, the taxes lower compared to Canada and you're in the job category where most employer health insurance plans and access to health care are excellent and far superior to Canadian health care.

And yes Fotze, filling out FBAR's every year sucks! (I have a wife who likes to change high interest savings accounts everytime there's a higher rate somewhere else so downloading dozens of account statements and calculating the maximum balance for each is a PITA)

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Shazam

Your anecdotal experience is irrelevant. I'm sure you've had "great" opportunities. Are they $500K great? Well I'm going to say no.

Yours is also anecdotal.....

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by ThePrince

That's pretty BS. There are many skilled higher earning workers (tech, engineering, health care, etc.), living in the US where you get higher pay, lower taxes, lower cost of living, with better health care and more mobility than Canada.

If you're a skilled worker, there's no comparison between the two countries, Canada is so far behind. Just because you can't comprehend it, doesn't mean the brain drain isn't a very real thing.

Nah, this is BS because it’s just too narrowminded.

Opportunity is about more than that.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

It all depends on where you sit on the economic spectrum. I'm a Canadian on a work visa in the US and have been here a few years. Based on what I have seen, it's much better to live in Canada if you're poor to upper middle class.

For most Middle-class people - Health care costs, Education costs and insurance are the big-ticket items that cost more in the US (While federal and State taxes are lower than Canada you have to factor in higher local taxes if you want to live in a decent school district). For poorer folks all of the above also applies, but also there's much more government help and social programs in Canada and the bureaucracy is much easier to navigate in Canada (I believe the big reason why there's different attitudes towards government's involvement in everyday life between the countries is due to this. US federal and state governments are the height of incompetence and useless manual processes.)

Once you're in the range of US$200k/yr and up there's infinitely more opportunity in the US, the taxes lower compared to Canada and you're in the job category where most employer health insurance plans and access to health care are excellent and far superior to Canadian health care.

And yes Fotze, filling out FBAR's every year sucks! (I have a wife who likes to change high interest savings accounts everytime there's a higher rate somewhere else so downloading dozens of account statements and calculating the maximum balance for each is a PITA)

Distilled, US provides much more opportunity for upwardly mobile with higher standard deviations for most health/wealth measures. Canada has less opportunities for upwardly mobile with less deviations for a higher median health/wealth measures

[opendoor]

LOL. Why the hell is anyone talking about the "opportunity" in the US vs. Canada when a (presumably) middle-aged guy with a family who has already lived in the US for 20 years is asking whether to get citizenship or not? Yeah, I'm sure he's going to drop everything to go grind at Facebook in pursuit of the FIRE lifestyle.

Anyway nfotiu, as others have said, citizenship is probably a good idea in your case. There are annoying things relating to taxes and filing requirements if you're a US citizen living abroad. But I'm assuming that barring a serious breakdown in the country, you're planning on staying? If so, then there's no real downside. You still keep your Canadian citizenship and being a US citizen rather than a green card holder would only really serve to help you if things get hairy down there.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

It all depends on where you sit on the economic spectrum. I'm a Canadian on a work visa in the US and have been here a few years. Based on what I have seen, it's much better to live in Canada if you're poor to upper middle class.

For most Middle-class people - Health care costs, Education costs and insurance are the big-ticket items that cost more in the US (While federal and State taxes are lower than Canada you have to factor in higher local taxes if you want to live in a decent school district). For poorer folks all of the above also applies, but also there's much more government help and social programs in Canada and the bureaucracy is much easier to navigate in Canada (I believe the big reason why there's different attitudes towards government's involvement in everyday life between the countries is due to this. US federal and state governments are the height of incompetence and useless manual processes.)

Once you're in the range of US$200k/yr and up there's infinitely more opportunity in the US, the taxes lower compared to Canada and you're in the job category where most employer health insurance plans and access to health care are excellent and far superior to Canadian health care.

And yes Fotze, filling out FBAR's every year sucks! (I have a wife who likes to change high interest savings accounts everytime there's a higher rate somewhere else so downloading dozens of account statements and calculating the maximum balance for each is a PITA)

I'm self employed and can live anywhere that has internet. I looked at moving to San Diego about 5 years ago, because

it could be hotter

As a self employed person I'd need to cover my own health care. The break even where the savings on taxes covered the health care cost for a decent family plan was $275k.

Then I looked at the cost of houses in a good school district in US dollars and now we still live in Canada.... (luckily, as it turns out)

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

I'm self employed and can live anywhere that has internet. I looked at moving to San Diego about 5 years ago, because

As a self employed person I'd need to cover my own health care. The break even where the savings on taxes covered the health care cost for a decent family plan was $275k.

Then I looked at the cost of houses in a good school district in US dollars and now we still live in Canada....

You probably picked the single most expensive market in the US with the highest taxes in the US and compared it (if you live in Alberta) to one of the best income to cost of living ratios and lowest taxed places in Canada.

[#-3]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

I have to renew my green card in 2028 anyway so there is no way around being on radar. That seems low risk. My bigger concern is if I lose anything from Canadian status and don’t think I do.

That's fair, but realistically I would give it an above 50% change that by 2028 this problem is approaching some resolution, or that there would be a chorus of people on here telling you to get out, I think a 3rd option that this is still a live problem is smaller than the combination of those two.

People with Canadian passports can have other passports at the same time, I know that much.

[ThePrince]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Nah, this is BS because it’s just too narrowminded.

Opportunity is about more than that.

lol

“I don’t agree with you, but I have nothing valuable to add to back it up, so I’ll just call you narrow-minded to feel morally superior and chalk it up to you not understanding because I think I’m smarter than everyone else”

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

I know, it's a bad and weird time to be asking this.

I've been thinking more about getting my US citizenship just for a little piece of mind. I've lived here for over 20 years and have a couple kids born here, house and American wife and step kids. There is some point of craziness that would make me take them all and leave I suppose, but hopefully it doesn't come to that.

I never really had a good reason to get it until now. Is there any downside? Has anyone done it and regretted it for some reason?

I believe I can still keep my Canadian citizenship and have a Canadian passport, even though I think the US doesn't recognize it. Is there anything I'm not considering other than being a traitor?

My wife is a dual citizen, I've been in the US on an IR-1 visa since 2023. I will be applying to become a US citizen as soon as I am eligible, which randomly falls on Canada Day in 2026.

We are of the opinion that there is no benefit to one being a dual citizen and the other not.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by ThePrince

lol

“I don’t agree with you, but I have nothing valuable to add to back it up, so I’ll just call you narrow-minded to feel morally superior and chalk it up to you not understanding because I think I’m smarter than everyone else”

lol

Originally Posted by ThePrince

That's pretty BS. There are many skilled higher earning workers (tech, engineering, health care, etc.), living in the US where you get higher pay, lower taxes, lower cost of living, with better health care and more mobility than Canada.

If you're a skilled worker, there's no comparison between the two countries, Canada is so far behind. Just because you can't comprehend it, doesn't mean the brain drain isn't a very real thing.

Someone doesn’t like how their own medicine tastes. Sorry I didn’t “back it up” with *insert overly generalized anecdote touching on one aspect of the concept of opportunity*, it would have been so smart!

Which one of us is American?

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

You probably picked the single most expensive market in the US with the highest taxes in the US and compared it (if you live in Alberta) to one of the best income to cost of living ratios and lowest taxed places in Canada.

That's all 100% true. Alberta to California is definitely tilting the scales in Canada's favour.

But I wasn't interested in living in any other part of the US. Not having winter was a big factor, but somewhere like Arizona, Texas or Florida has terrible weather for multiple months of the year. So while other people would probably come out ahead if they were comparing different places (the number would be quite different if you were moving from Vancouver to Orlando) for me that's where it came out.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

My wife is a dual citizen, I've been in the US on an IR-1 visa since 2023. I will be applying to become a US citizen as soon as I am eligible, which randomly falls on Canada Day in 2026.

We are of the opinion that there is no benefit to one being a dual citizen and the other not.

I've heard tell that you need to renounce your current citizenship to get American. Is that true?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

That's all 100% true. Alberta to California is definitely tilting the scales in Canada's favour.

But I wasn't interested in living in any other part of the US. Not having winter was a big factor, but somewhere like Arizona, Texas or Florida has terrible weather for multiple months of the year. So while other people would probably come out ahead if they were comparing different places (the number would be quite different if you were moving from Vancouver to Orlando) for me that's where it came out.

It’s crazy. You’d think just making definitive, generalized comments about “opportunity” and trying to apply them to two entire countries would work, but it turns out, there’s some nuance involved.

Who. Knew.

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

I've heard tell that you need to renounce your current citizenship to get American. Is that true?

That is not my understanding, unless Trump signed an EO to change it recently that I'm unaware of.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

I've heard tell that you need to renounce your current citizenship to get American. Is that true?

I don’t believe that’s true, certainly not in all cases at least. The inverse is more common, by choice, since they tax based on citizenship instead of residency.

[fotze2]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

That is not my understanding, unless Trump signed an EO to change it recently that I'm unaware of.

I think the minimum fee to renounce is like $2k last time I checked plus a full audit of all your assets.

[nfotiu]

My understanding is you don't need to renounce your Canadian citizenship, but the US will no longer recognize it. ie, they won't consider your Canadian passport a valid passport for entry. But Canada and other countries would.