[Trade] Rantanen, Hall to CAR. Necas, Drury, 2nd, 4th to COL. CHI ret 50% of Rantanen + 3rd

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

I would hate this trade as a fan of the Avs and be bitterly indifferent the Hawks couldn’t get more for Hall as a rental + retaining on Rantanen.

I’d be over the moon if I were a Hurricanes fan, if any indeed exist.

I mostly agree except I wouldn’t hate it for the Avs. Necas has the most potential growth of all players involved and has the potential to swing this deal in Colorado’s favour given what Rantanens contract will end up being.

[Sofa GM]

What is stopping the Avs from packaging Necas and Ritchie for Petterson. That gets it done I have to think.

[D as in David]

Carolina getting better is a plus for keeping Jersey's first round pick lower.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

So instead of telling me I’m wrong which is the simplest path, what’s your evaluation of Hall’s worth? Clearly he has some level of value because he was just traded for, unless you suppose Chicago ditched him just for the cap space that they ate on Rantanens retention.

None of this makes sense

At $6M cap, Hall had little value because contenders can’t fit him in easily. His production vs. His cap hit makes him a poor target for a contender.

It makes all the sense in the world.

[GreenLantern2814]

If I were Hall, I might consider I’d made enough money in my career, and maybe just start signing one-year $1M deals with teams like the Lightning and Panthers (and Hurricanes, frankly).

He’s staring down the barrel of his entire career being a monument to futility. He’d be more remembered for a Bob McKenzie tweet and failing his boating exam four times than his Hart trophy.

Which he actually did win.

Yakupov was the biggest bust of the decade, but Hall is easily the biggest waste.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

At $6M cap, Hall had little value because contenders can’t fit him in easily. His production vs. His cap hit makes him a poor target for a contender.

It makes all the sense in the world.

Yeah but Hall was a UFA on a team who is currently punting the season prior to getting traded. I like the explanation of Chicago trying to trade him to a competitive team for future good will. That I can buy even if it isn’t quantifiable.

From a ledger perspective, Hall has scored poorly on one of the worst teams in the league. I would expect him to get a bump in scoring on the Canes because he will be around more talent compared to the Sarlacc Pit that is Chicagos offence this year. He won’t be a world breaker but I do think Hall will do better than Chicago has set him up for.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

So instead of telling me I’m wrong which is the simplest path, what’s your evaluation of Hall’s worth? Clearly he has some level of value because he was just traded for, unless you suppose Chicago ditched him just for the cap space that they ate on Rantanens retention.

None of this makes sense

I do, in fact, suppose that Chicago ditched him for the cap space. He has negative value to Chicago, since he's a UFA at the end of the season and they aren't winning with or without him. He may have a slight positive value to Carolina as a rental, but clearly they weren't giving up much for him.

[GreenLantern2814]

Taking a Quick Look at Chicago’s cap page, they look like they could afford to give Rantanen $13M just without retaining any of their pending UFAs, none of whom are special.

Wouldn’t that be something.

[bluejays]

Man, I like Sakic as a GM in so many ways. Most teams have the same mantra about trading star players coming into the playoffs - "oh, if the team is doing well, we'd rather lose player x in free agency, then trading him and sending a bad message to the fans and teammates". Sakic just said naa, we're going to get as much as we can knowing we won't sign him, and we need to cut our losses despite the upcoming playoffs. It's smart and just something most teams wouldn't do because of his name alone.

[Sec214]

Originally Posted by bluejays

Man, I like Sakic as a GM in so many ways. Most teams have the same mantra about trading star players coming into the playoffs - "oh, if the team is doing well, we'd rather lose player x in free agency, then trading him and sending a bad message to the fans and teammates". Sakic just said naa, we're going to get as much as we can knowing we won't sign him, and we need to cut our losses despite the upcoming playoffs. It's smart and just something most teams wouldn't do because of his name alone.

Too bad Tre can't do the same eh?

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by bluejays

Man, I like Sakic as a GM in so many ways. Most teams have the same mantra about trading star players coming into the playoffs - "oh, if the team is doing well, we'd rather lose player x in free agency, then trading him and sending a bad message to the fans and teammates". Sakic just said naa, we're going to get as much as we can knowing we won't sign him, and we need to cut our losses despite the upcoming playoffs. It's smart and just something most teams wouldn't do because of his name alone.

Easier to do after a cup win

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Sec214

Too bad Tre can't do the same eh?

If I was a gambling man, I'd have thought Tre would be dealing Marner this past off-season. Marner doesn't like getting criticized and takes it really personally. I still don't believe in this Leafs team being a favourite to push for the cup, though the East is looking kinda weak this year. In any case, the situation is the same for Colorado as is the Leafs.


In any case, something tells me Tre moving to the Leafs was to redeem himself to not have a reputation for letting players walk for nothing. If so, I'm guessing he thinks he can re-sign Marner at some point. If Marner left for nothing, it would be terrible for that team. Colorado didn't get a great deal for Rantanen, but it was ballsy AF. We need more of that. Marner should've been dealt this past off-season just to maximize the value. Signing him for $14M will be nuts.

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by bluejays

Man, I like Sakic as a GM in so many ways. Most teams have the same mantra about trading star players coming into the playoffs - "oh, if the team is doing well, we'd rather lose player x in free agency, then trading him and sending a bad message to the fans and teammates". Sakic just said naa, we're going to get as much as we can knowing we won't sign him, and we need to cut our losses despite the upcoming playoffs. It's smart and just something most teams wouldn't do because of his name alone.

Sakic isn’t GM

[Sec214]

Originally Posted by bluejays

If I was a gambling man, I'd have thought Tre would be dealing Marner this past off-season. Marner doesn't like getting criticized and takes it really personally. I still don't believe in this Leafs team being a favourite to push for the cup, though the East is looking kinda weak this year. In any case, the situation is the same for Colorado as is the Leafs.


In any case, something tells me Tre moving to the Leafs was to redeem himself to not have a reputation for letting players walk for nothing. If so, I'm guessing he thinks he can re-sign Marner at some point. If Marner left for nothing, it would be terrible for that team. Colorado didn't get a great deal for Rantanen, but it was ballsy AF. We need more of that. Marner should've been dealt this past off-season just to maximize the value. Signing him for $14M will be nuts.

I disagree that you say he's not worth 14M when he's 6th in points in the last 5 years and only 1 point behind Artemi for 5th. Only Mcdingus, Pissypants, Mack, and Rantenen have more.

Cap only going up.

[InternationalVillager]

Originally Posted by bluejays

Colorado didn't get a great deal for Rantanen

what?

i dont think they get a better deal than this.

[simonsays]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Regarding the original Hall trade...

Imagine if the Oilers had remained patient and ended up with Hall on McDavid's wing - what a different career that would have been for Hall.

At the time of the 1 for 1 trade, Hall was jockeying hard for the captaincy. Saying all the right things even if he didn't actually do them on the ice. They either had to sleight him or trade him and I guess they decided on the latter. Everyone except Hall knew that Connor McCaptain was the next leader of the Oil.



That said they didn't have to trade him for Larson 141.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by Sec214

I disagree that you say he's not worth 14M when he's 6th in points in the last 5 years and only 1 point behind Artemi for 5th. Only Mcdingus, Pissypants, Mack, and Rantenen have more.

Cap only going up.

You don't pay for the last 5 years. You pay for the next 8(!) years.

The cap is going up either way, save the money for valuable players like the next Rantanen.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by InternationalVillager

what?

i dont think they get a better deal than this.

We fans are a bit arrogant thinking we know what's good and bad value when theres an exponential amount of information that we don't have.

People only see the immediate fallout of what went where in these trades. I'll reference the Hamilton for Lindholm and Hanifin trade. Soany here thought it was a horrible trade on the face of it but as you dig deeper the trade quickly became much better once all the pieces were put together .

The Avs not only got Necas and Drury and the picks (which they didn't have many of in this draft so recouped some draft capital) but they also got 13.84 m in cap flexibility to add much more to their roster. If you're gearing up for a cup run, that flexibility to add is invaluable.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by butterfly

You don't pay for the last 5 years. You pay for the next 8(!) years.

The cap is going up either way, save the money for valuable players like the next Rantanen.

Marner is younger than Rantanen....not to mention top players dont grow on trees. You always lock up a 27 year old top 6 scorer. Hopefully Brads Fs it up.

[CliffFletcher]

Shrewd move by the Avs and big gamble for the Canes. If Rantanen is resolved to go to market, the Avs just salvaged a bunch of assets while the Canes will be left holding the bag.