2024 Toronto Blue Jays Season Thread

[bluejays]

The problem I have with Vlad playing 3rd is the possibility of blowing out his arm on a throw. I think he's shown that he's passable at the position defensively, which I'm fine with, but ideally 1st is where he's best. IF he can play 3rd again, he becomes a lot more valuable.

[Andrew]

With all these these deferrals on Santander contracr
Will rogers spend in future. Likely reduces future spending. Atkins mtging future to win new save job?

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Andrew

With all these these deferrals on Santander contracr
Will rogers spend in future. Likely reduces future spending. Atkins mtging future to win new save job?

Deferred money is placed in an “account” on D1 so really no cash flow impact for Rogers

[Andrew]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Deferred money is placed in an “account” on D1 so really no cash flow impact for Rogers

Can you be certain of this?

Also I don't think (could argue) cashflow is issue with rogers its a a budget.

Is a net expenditure in given year? Why defer for rogers other than luxury tax? (Good reason in it's own right)

If ceo sees we are paying 10 to Santander this year...

Even if it is placed in an account. What about the interest?

[zukes]

My understanding the money is put in an account and left there. That is why it is worth less on the cap as they factor in inflation. There's a calculation on Ohtani's contract and the deferred money on the internet if you want to look up how exactly it works.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by bluejays

The problem I have with Vlad playing 3rd is the possibility of blowing out his arm on a throw. I think he's shown that he's passable at the position defensively, which I'm fine with, but ideally 1st is where he's best. IF he can play 3rd again, he becomes a lot more valuable.

I think Vlad can play 3rd as the backup option,

However in my opinion he is not the everyday 3rd.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by flambers

I think Vlad can play 3rd as the backup option,

However in my opinion he is not the everyday 3rd.

I think something like 1 out of every 4 games is fine. Not overly taxing, especially if he also gets some more DH days.

I think it'd be worth it to get Alonso's bat into the lineup.

[zukes]

I am fine sacrificing defense to get some offense on this team. They have been a chore to watch these last couple years. They have enough glove guys that they can make changes late to shore up the defense.

[Roof-Daddy]

I'm alright giving Vladdy time at 3B as long as it's being done fit in another masher at 1B like Alonso.

The thought of Vladdy and Bo covering that side of the infield is frightening though. Sure would be nice to put Giminez at SS and tell Bo he's playing 2B now. The guy seems like he's on his way of Toronto anyways.

[Jiggy_12]

yeah, adding 40 bombs from Alonso should more than offset the extra runs against attributed to Vlad at 3B.

[JTech780]

Rogers should have an invested interest in making the Jays fun to watch and competitive, since they also own the rights to broadcasting the games.

Maybe they should go target Arenado, that contract sucks, but even in a down year that guy still put up 3.1 WAR, I am guessing the acquisition cost would be minimal, depending on how much money they took on. I bet he would rebound offensively.

Sign Alonso to split time at 1B and DH, Vlad can play 1B, 3B and DH.

1. Springer LF
2. Guerrero Jr. 1B
3. Bichette SS
4. Alonso DH
5. Santander RF
6. Arenado 3B
7. Varsho CF
8. Kirk C
9. Gimenez 2B

That lineup sure looks a lot more formidable than it has for a long time.

[Roof-Daddy]

I have a feeling Arenado would block any trade to Toronto, if he hasn't already.

I'd be really interested to see them trade for Luis Robert. My bet is the White Sox want a haul for him though despite the horrid season he is coming off of. Bounce back candidate with plenty of juice in the bat.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by JTech780

Rogers should have an invested interest in making the Jays fun to watch and competitive, since they also own the rights to broadcasting the games.

Maybe they should go target Arenado, that contract sucks, but even in a down year that guy still put up 3.1 WAR, I am guessing the acquisition cost would be minimal, depending on how much money they took on. I bet he would rebound offensively.

Sign Alonso to split time at 1B and DH, Vlad can play 1B, 3B and DH.

1. Springer LF
2. Guerrero Jr. 1B
3. Bichette SS
4. Alonso DH
5. Santander RF
6. Arenado 3B
7. Varsho CF
8. Kirk C
9. Gimenez 2B

That lineup sure looks a lot more formidable than it has for a long time.

I like your lineup, but I sure hope we're done with Springer leading off. I don't care if he likes it, there's no reason to give the most at-bats to him at this point, imo.

[868904]

Alonso isn't going to come here, he's clearly hoping to go back to the Mets and the Mets are just trying to grind him down. Eventually, they will agree to a deal. Jays fans should not get their hopes up for Alonso.

There's not much else out there. I think Shatkins ends up bringing Turner back for DH/1B. He gets on base enough that you could put him ahead of Vladdy and Santander in the hopes he can walk home. I could even see them bringing Tellez back for DH/1B. That's what Jays fans should be anticipating.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by 868904

Alonso isn't going to come here, he's clearly hoping to go back to the Mets and the Mets are just trying to grind him down. Eventually, they will agree to a deal. Jays fans should not get their hopes up for Alonso.

There's not much else out there. I think Shatkins ends up bringing Turner back for DH/1B. He gets on base enough that you could put him ahead of Vladdy and Santander in the hopes he can walk home. I could even see them bringing Tellez back for DH/1B. That's what Jays fans should be anticipating.

Turner would be OK. I'd rather see them give the reps to Martinez/Barger/Lukes/Wagner than get Tellez back. OPS+ only 91 - no reason to sign a below league average hitter as a FA to DH/1B.

Maybe one of those other guys breaks out.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Andrew

Can you be certain of this?

Also I don't think (could argue) cashflow is issue with rogers its a a budget.

Is a net expenditure in given year? Why defer for rogers other than luxury tax? (Good reason in it's own right)

If ceo sees we are paying 10 to Santander this year...

Even if it is placed in an account. What about the interest?

1. A fixed amount of money is placed in "escrow/lawyer account" with a fixed rate of return that equals that exact amount at the exact times the deferral payouts are due. This is to ensure the team doesnt go bankrupt / isn't in a position where they can't pay their owed deferrals

2. There's not a huge benefit to the Jays - They may be able to arbitrage a bit of the interest rate they get on this fixed deferred money vs what the discount rate used to apply the future value is, but on 60 million it wouldn't be much (The Dodgers are rumored to be doing this but on 1.5 billion it makes a lot bigger difference)

3. The biggest reason deferrals are getting popular - and started in LA - is for tax deferral. You can take later payments when you live in a much more tax effective state / country and lower you total tax burden significantly.

So since Santandar most likely has zero interest in living in Canada long term he can move to Florida after his playing career, and eventually pay taxes based on Florida rates. This can save ~10% in taxes paid over the life of the contract.

So a player could take a 5% discount on the present day value of the contract and still end up ahead, and the team would 'save' the 5% . Win Win (Except the CRA/IRS). In this scenario the Jays also "Save" 5% of the luxury tax hit since the player is taking less present day value, knowing they will end up net ahead in 20 (whatever the terms are) years then if they took a traditional contract.

The caveat is all the deferred $$ must be placed in escrow/account up front, so a team has to have the ability to come up with large sums of money on D1 of the contract

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

1. A fixed amount of money is placed in "escrow/lawyer account" with a fixed rate of return that equals that exact amount at the exact times the deferral payouts are due. This is to ensure the team doesnt go bankrupt / isn't in a position where they can't pay their owed deferrals

2. There's not a huge benefit to the Jays - They may be able to arbitrage a bit of the interest rate they get on this fixed deferred money vs what the discount rate used to apply the future value is, but on 60 million it wouldn't be much (The Dodgers are rumored to be doing this but on 1.5 billion it makes a lot bigger difference)

3. The biggest reason deferrals are getting popular - and started in LA - is for tax deferral. You can take later payments when you live in a much more tax effective state / country and lower you total tax burden significantly.

So since Santandar most likely has zero interest in living in Canada long term he can move to Florida after his playing career, and eventually pay taxes based on Florida rates. This can save ~10% in taxes paid over the life of the contract.

So a player could take a 5% discount on the present day value of the contract and still end up ahead, and the team would 'save' the 5% . Win Win (Except the CRA/IRS). In this scenario the Jays also "Save" 5% of the luxury tax hit since the player is taking less present day value, knowing they will end up net ahead in 20 (whatever the terms are) years then if they took a traditional contract.

The caveat is all the deferred $$ must be placed in escrow/account up front, so a team has to have the ability to come up with large sums of money on D1 of the contract

Yeah, I think deferrals are potentially a good tool to attract FAs to Canada. Let them get some of the money later when they're living somewhere with lower taxes. Cash now presumably isn't a big problem for Rogers, and it offsets one of the big downsides that players have in coming here.

[JTech780]

What about Ha-Seong Kim? Can play SS, 2B and 3B plus defender, plus speed, he gets on base at a solid rate and has a bit of pop. He is coming off shoulder surgery, and won’t be ready to start the season, but he would be a solid player to have and a solid back up option if Bichette leaves or gets traded.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by JTech780

What about Ha-Seong Kim? Can play SS, 2B and 3B plus defender, plus speed, he gets on base at a solid rate and has a bit of pop. He is coming off shoulder surgery, and won’t be ready to start the season, but he would be a solid player to have and a solid back up option if Bichette leaves or gets traded.

I'd be all for it if the plan is to trade Bo.

Kind of risky though, looking at a decent sized contract but coming off surgery.

Still, him/Giminez and Varsho up the middle of the diamond would be a treat defensively.

Vladdy/Clement at 3B
Try to get Alonso for 1B

[browna]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

Yeah, I think deferrals are potentially a good tool to attract FAs to Canada. Let them get some of the money later when they're living somewhere with lower taxes. Cash now presumably isn't a big problem for Rogers, and it offsets one of the big downsides that players have in coming here.

They are, and wouldn't doubt that if the Jays could defer massive amounts,like Ohtani did, maybe they would.

By no means a tax lawyer or expert, but my guess is the CRA has a vastly different set of rules than the IRS on those sorts of complications. Ohtani probably spent a lot of money on tax lawyers to make sure it would all go around, set up the various corporate shells etc for the maximized tax savings, and the familiarity with those same tax lawyers for knowledge of the CRA rules is probably different or non-existent.

A ton of opt outs for Alonso sounds good on paper for both sides, but probably a lot of teams offer that. Why would would be pick Toronto to do that exercise, outside of course $ offered?

He doesn't want to leave the Mets and wants eventually a price of the pie that Soto got.

But if he's that upset, I can see him spite the Mets by going to the Yankees as a trade for the Soto swap, on one of those multiple opt out deal the Jays are offering.