Making the playoffs or keeping our top-10 first round pick 2025?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Sweeping St. Louis would be a 5 game win streak the longest of the season.

Since December they have been consistent in alternating wins and losses or winning 2 in a row and losing 2 in a row.

It would also put them 9 points up on STL (assuming regulation wins) with 2 games in hand. That would effectively take any control of the situation out of STL's hands.

And it would become a 2 pony race for the final playoff spot.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

I still maintain that we will never be a contender if we don't tank.

People may laugh at Chicago or San Jose, but I'd trade the entire team for Bedard or Celebrini. Just having a player like that gives you the potential to win the cup one day.

But yeah, it's clear since we aren't going to tank that cheering for playoffs would be fun too.

Having Wolf also gives you the potential to win the cup one day.

[Paulie Walnuts]

They did everything they could to tank, the chance always existed that Wolf would show he is the real deal right away.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

They did everything they could to tank, the chance always existed that Wolf would show he is the real deal right away.

The defense is the biggest surprise to me. They are playing pretty well as a unit for only having two top 4 dmen

[sa226]

I'm seeing confusing sentiment, I just want to make sure I understand at this point. The Flames won't be without a 1st round pick this year correct? Its just that they will surrender the better of the picks between Calgary and Florida? So at this point with only 3 draft spots separating them, woo hoo lets go Flames! Correct?

But if they managed to slip into the top 10, they surrender the Florida pick still correct?

I mean, unless you're slipping into the top 5, even the separation between 10 and say 15 could be pretty negligible in 5 years anyway.

Theres a chance Florida could go on a heater to finish the season, but hopefully they kinda stay in that mushy middle and the Flames still come out with a decent pick.

I say go Playoffs!

[Paulie Walnuts]

I guess you can look at it like trading back to get another 3rd pick in this case we are trading back 3 spots for a playoff spot.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by sa226

I'm seeing confusing sentiment, I just want to make sure I understand at this point. The Flames won't be without a 1st round pick this year correct? Its just that they will surrender the better of the picks between Calgary and Florida? So at this point with only 3 draft spots separating them, woo hoo lets go Flames! Correct?

But if they managed to slip into the top 10, they surrender the Florida pick still correct?

I mean, unless you're slipping into the top 5, even the separation between 10 and say 15 could be pretty negligible in 5 years anyway.

Theres a chance Florida could go on a heater to finish the season, but hopefully they kinda stay in that mushy middle and the Flames still come out with a decent pick.

I say go Playoffs!

Both bolded sentences are correct. The Flames will have 2 first round picks this year (NJD's and either the CGY or FLA pick), it's just a question of what those picks will be.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

I still maintain that we will never be a contender if we don't tank.

People may laugh at Chicago or San Jose, but I'd trade the entire team for Bedard or Celebrini. Just having a player like that gives you the potential to win the cup one day.

But yeah, it's clear since we aren't going to tank that cheering for playoffs would be fun too.

I don't think any of the players at the top this year are at a Bedard or Celebrini level.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by sa226

I'm seeing confusing sentiment, I just want to make sure I understand at this point. The Flames won't be without a 1st round pick this year correct? Its just that they will surrender the better of the picks between Calgary and Florida? So at this point with only 3 draft spots separating them, woo hoo lets go Flames! Correct?

But if they managed to slip into the top 10, they surrender the Florida pick still correct?

I mean, unless you're slipping into the top 5, even the separation between 10 and say 15 could be pretty negligible in 5 years anyway.

Theres a chance Florida could go on a heater to finish the season, but hopefully they kinda stay in that mushy middle and the Flames still come out with a decent pick.

I say go Playoffs!

Going into the season the biggest worry was Montreal getting the 2nd overall (even though chances were slim) but that should be pretty much dead barring an absolute mess of a second half for the Flames and Panthers. Now I am pretty indifferent about what happens with the draft. IF the Flames slide into the top ten then is what it is but if they stay in the playoff hunt then they are probably give up a difference of 10 spots max in the back half of the first round.

[Rhett44]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Having Wolf also gives you the potential to win the cup one day.

It helps, but in most cases lately having good goaltending is enough. And the roster construction in front of the goalie is more important.

Otherwise Shesterkin and Hellybuyk would have a cup by now.

[redmile04]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

It helps, but in most cases lately having good goaltending is enough. And the roster construction in front of the goalie is more important.

Otherwise Shesterkin and Hellybuyk would have a cup by now.

and Kipper

[GioforPM]

Let's put it this way - the reason the Flames are where they are and not top 10 at least (and maybve top 5) is Wolf. Who was drafted in round 7, 214OA.

Wolf IS the top 5 pick equivalent.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

It helps, but in most cases lately having good goaltending is enough. And the roster construction in front of the goalie is more important.

Otherwise Shesterkin and Hellybuyk would have a cup by now.

As to the first sentence, you can say the exact same thing about the top pick: it helps, but in most cases isn't necessary.

As for the other 2 sentences: McDavid, Matthews, Hischier, Dahlin, Hughes and Lafreniere say hi (every #1 from 2015-2020)

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

It would also put them 9 points up on STL (assuming regulation wins) with 2 games in hand. That would effectively take any control of the situation out of STL's hands.

And it would become a 2 pony race for the final playoff spot.

Still 40 games left.

[sa226]

I would specify that a bit further and say having good to great goaltending is enough for a cup, vs having a good to great goaltender. Its just that with a good to great goaltender your chances of having great goaltending in the playoffs is much higher.

The list of average goalies that got hot in the playoffs is long. The list of great goaltenders that struggled in the playoffs is also longer than it should be.

If you look at his career numbers Markstrom could be considered a good to great goaltender, that didn't help much against Edmonton did it.

Such a crapshoot of a position to manage.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I think the big thing is operate less like Sutter/Treliving and more like Conroy.

Get picks, have extra picks and use them to draft players, and draft skills over size. I would rather have extra bullets in that 2010 draft when they have Johnny and Kucherov circled as guys to go after. Don't trade 3rd round picks for junk like Bollig, and draft Hunter Smith in the same draft.

Taking a chance on skill over size has paid off for this franchise. Look at Johnny and Wolf.

Having extra picks allow you get a Misa.

If we offered up a 5th round pick in a trade right now chances are we get Ryan Carpenter. Now you attach a name to that pick like Misa and that probably get you in the conversation of a good player.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Bonded

The defense is the biggest surprise to me. They are playing pretty well as a unit for only having two top 4 dmen

Certainly huge surprise. That said I never really understood the flames having the best D on paper for decades. Always thought more money needed to go to forward group.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Still 40 games left.

Yes. Well, 36 for STL (after these games)

But when you're 9 points back with 2 less games to play, it is out of your hands, you need help.

STL would be at 44 points in 46 games. To get to 96, they would need to go 26-10-0. I mean, is it possible? Sure. But in reality, they would need significant help. You can hope 1 team will falter, but you can't expect 2 teams to fall back (CGY and VAN).

If CGY wins both in regulation, STL is done.

[Knut]

To those wanting to trade Andersson right now to "tank" are not thinking of what the potential return would be. If we wait until the offseason we might be able to pull out an extra prospect or upgrade a pick to a first round pick. That would offset the value of the lost pick this season.

The first round pick being lost keeps being looked at in Isolation. It is not the only asset that can be moved/come in. If we lose a pick between 14-18 but Wolf, Zary, Coronato, Pelletier and Bahl all develop in a winning environment + we deal Andersson in the offseason for higher value than in midseason, I would say that is a win.

Once we lose the pick the same posters will throw the player picked by Montreal into every equation until that player busts out.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by sa226

I would specify that a bit further and say having good to great goaltending is enough for a cup, vs having a good to great goaltender. Its just that with a good to great goaltender your chances of having great goaltending in the playoffs is much higher.

The list of average goalies that got hot in the playoffs is long. The list of great goaltenders that struggled in the playoffs is also longer than it should be.

If you look at his career numbers Markstrom could be considered a good to great goaltender, that didn't help much against Edmonton did it.

Such a crapshoot of a position to manage.

Look at Oettinger in DAL, and Shesterkin in NY. Neither team has that elite #1 C like a MacKinnon. But both have an elite goalie. And both are perennial contenders as a result. (Yes, NY has fallen off a cliff this year, but that only proves my point: the roster isn't that terrific, it's that they have an elite goalie)