Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[PepsiFree]

I get calling for Trudeau to resign because even his own party wants him gone at this point as he’s hurting their chances for reelection. But the pension talk seems to just be an extension of conservatives having really no good reason why the NDP should make an election happen now outside of “we want it” and so have shifted from those debunked arguments to trying to paint Singh as “only doing it for the pension” as though he’s the only person in the NDP that makes any decisions. If an election happens in January we’ll just pretend this conversation never happened and if it doesn’t happen until October we’ll pretend it’s for some other selfish reason.

Hope that doesn’t come off as antagonistic. Don’t want to upset anyone.

[Goriders]

How was the pension angle debunked? That’s the deal he cut with his MPs.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Goriders

How was the pension angle debunked? That’s the deal he cut with his MPs.

The previous arguments over an early election being good for the NDP were debunked.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by Goriders

How was the pension angle debunked? That’s the deal he cut with his MPs.

What?

[PepsiFree]

Maybe it’s time we start suggesting that PP doesn’t care about Canadians and he just wants to become PM to increase his pension which will already pay him almost $250k per year.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Maybe it’s time we start suggesting that PP doesn’t care about Canadians and he just wants to become PM to increase his pension which will already pay him almost $250k per year.

As long as it framed as a percent difference between two percentages.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Maybe it’s time we start suggesting that PP doesn’t care about Canadians and he just wants to become PM to increase his pension which will already pay him almost $250k per year.

Well obviously he only wants an election because he will get a pay increase for being the PM.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by belsarius

Well obviously he only wants an election because he will get a pay increase for being the PM.

Just your typical Champaigne Fascist Trust Fund Baby. who enjoys other peoples money.

[Dentoman]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Hope that doesn’t come off as antagonistic. Don’t want to upset anyone.

I'll admit, I laughed!

I am historically a conservative voter. I have grown very tired of the present state of Canadian politics. As others have stated, there is no one I actually would like as PM. PP is Trump Lite with the nicknames and sound bites. He is basically a "Laurentian Elite" except from being from Alberta. JT is really just a puppet for Telford and Butts. And Singh is presently backed into a corner. He has no move to make that would help the NDP. It's a disaster all around.

As for Singh and his reasoning for not voting down the government, as others have stated as well, he has no real reason to. There is no political advantage at the moment to do so. It's not about his pension, he is just playing the political game right now. He has actually been able to push a significant amount of the NDP agenda through. Strictly as a politician, he has probably done the best job of the three.

[aaronck]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Maybe it’s time we start suggesting that PP doesn’t care about Canadians and he just wants to become PM to increase his pension which will already pay him almost $250k per year.

He's been drinking from the public hose his entire working life, never having had a job outside politics, is now somehow a multi millionaire and I have read that he expenses more than the PM- But of course he will help Canada with the price of eggs and gas, right?

[TKB]

Originally Posted by aaronck

He's been drinking from the public hose his entire working life, never having had a job outside politics, is now somehow a multi millionaire and I have read that he expenses more than the PM- But of course he will help Canada with the price of eggs and gas, right?

Yes

[Wormius]

PP is “DGAFGM” incarnate. But it’s fine, cause, reasons.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by TKB

Yes

Man, conservative voters are going to freak when they find out about Santa Claus.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Dentoman

I'll admit, I laughed!

I am historically a conservative voter. I have grown very tired of the present state of Canadian politics. As others have stated, there is no one I actually would like as PM. PP is Trump Lite with the nicknames and sound bites. He is basically a "Laurentian Elite" except from being from Alberta. JT is really just a puppet for Telford and Butts. And Singh is presently backed into a corner. He has no move to make that would help the NDP. It's a disaster all around.

As for Singh and his reasoning for not voting down the government, as others have stated as well, he has no real reason to. There is no political advantage at the moment to do so. It's not about his pension, he is just playing the political game right now. He has actually been able to push a significant amount of the NDP agenda through. Strictly as a politician, he has probably done the best job of the three.

There’s certainly nobody who has played this smarter than Singh over the last couple years. Did more to advance the NDP platform and more to help struggling Canadians than any almost any NDP leader and anyone not running the government since 2015. Love him or hate him, he’s definitely done the best out of the three.

But yeah. It’s just ugly all around. Even as an NDP supporter it’s just a waiting game until the next leader at this point. There’s been some great things over the last decade or so but you look forward and it’s like… what’s next? Even Singh with all he’s accomplished just feels dusted. PP is a clown, Trudeau is a disaster. May, maybe? lol. Do we just put the Bloc in power?

It would be hard to take seriously anyone who is actually excited about the next chapter of Canadian politics.

[Patek23]

Pepsi, you claim that Singh doesn’t benefit from an election, but what are your reasons that the alternative is any better? I do agree that he has been in an excellent position to push the policies his party wants over the past few years. I’d also agree that, until now, his effectiveness as a leader has been the strongest among the main three party leaders.

However, with Freeland throwing a grenade into the situation, there’s no guarantee the Liberals will continue to fall in line in the House of Commons. There are reports of a growing faction of dissent within the Liberal party. Do you really think that, until JT either steps aside or we go to an election, things will continue as business as usual and JT will still be able to govern effectively?

I mean, you’ve consistently criticized posters you assume to be conservative for being out of touch and driven purely by their desired outcomes. But it seems like the shoe fits more on the left-leaning thinkers wishing for Singh to hold the line much longer until the inevitable results of the next election.

I’m open-minded and willing to hear how you think Singh will continue to push his policies in the new year, given the recent internal implosion of the Liberal party. But I just don’t see how continuing like this benefits anyone.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

There’s certainly nobody who has played this smarter than Singh over the last couple years. Did more to advance the NDP platform and more to help struggling Canadians than any almost any NDP leader and anyone not running the government since 2015. Love him or hate him, he’s definitely done the best out of the three.

But yeah. It’s just ugly all around. Even as an NDP supporter it’s just a waiting game until the next leader at this point. There’s been some great things over the last decade or so but you look forward and it’s like… what’s next? Even Singh with all he’s accomplished just feels dusted. PP is a clown, Trudeau is a disaster. May, maybe? lol. Do we just put the Bloc in power?

It would be hard to take seriously anyone who is actually excited about the next chapter of Canadian politics.

By what metric?

It's hard to take other people seriously when they have opinions that differ from yours? Sorry, that's your failing, not theirs.

The arrogance in your post is astounding.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Patek23

Pepsi, you claim that Singh doesn’t benefit from an election, but what are your reasons that the alternative is any better? I do agree that he has been in an excellent position to push the policies his party wants over the past few years. I’d also agree that, until now, his effectiveness as a leader has been the strongest among the main three party leaders.

However, with Freeland throwing a grenade into the situation, there’s no guarantee the Liberals will continue to fall in line in the House of Commons. There are reports of a growing faction of dissent within the Liberal party. Do you really think that, until JT either steps aside or we go to an election, things will continue as business as usual and JT will still be able to govern effectively?

I mean, you’ve consistently criticized posters you assume to be conservative for being out of touch and driven purely by their desired outcomes. But it seems like the shoe fits more on the left-leaning thinkers wishing for Singh to hold the line much longer until the inevitable results of the next election.

I’m open-minded and willing to hear how you think Singh will continue to push his policies in the new year, given the recent internal implosion of the Liberal party. But I just don’t see how continuing like this benefits anyone.

This was discussed a few pages back so I don’t really want to rehash everything, but you’re right, there’s no guarantee this is going to continue on regardless of what Singh does. That’s still better than guaranteeing it doesn’t by pulling the plug.

Right now Singh has leverage and influence. If an election happens right now, he loses both. The only way to maintain either is to hope Liberal fortunes turn around (new leader, party shake up, whatever). Some people are saying that by pulling the plug himself he’ll earn some cachet, but some of those same people are also saying PP shouldn’t make a deal with him because it’ll hurt their brand, so I think we can safely say any cachet he’s said to earn is highly exaggerated.

If you don’t think continuing on benefits anyone, can you tell me how an election tomorrow benefits anyone but the CPC and mayyyybe the Bloc?

You’re also misrepresenting people a bit here. I doubt very much anybody particularly wants Singh to hold the line, there is just an acceptance that he really has no reason not to. I truly do not care if the election is tomorrow or October. If it’s late 2025, maybe things have turned. If it’s now, we get the next clown show over with sooner. Bonus either way. I’m also not assuming anyone is conservative, I’m directly talking about conservatives. But even if we say all conservatives are full of #### because they just want what’s best for them and all liberals are full of #### because they just want what’s best for them, then I guess we’re all just full of #### and might as well continue on with the conversation.

Originally Posted by ComixZone

By what metric?

It's hard to take other people seriously when they have opinions that differ from yours? Sorry, that's your failing, not theirs.

The arrogance in your post is astounding.

I’m really interested in responding to you and continuing this discussion based on the incredibly thoughtful points you’ve made. But I will settle for subscribing to your newsletter.

[Patek23]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

This was discussed a few pages back so I don’t really want to rehash everything, but you’re right, there’s no guarantee this is going to continue on regardless of what Singh does. That’s still better than guaranteeing it doesn’t by pulling the plug.

Right now Singh has leverage and influence. If an election happens right now, he loses both. The only way to maintain either is to hope Liberal fortunes turn around (new leader, party shake up, whatever). Some people are saying that by pulling the plug himself he’ll earn some cachet, but some of those same people are also saying PP shouldn’t make a deal with him because it’ll hurt their brand, so I think we can safely say any cachet he’s said to earn is highly exaggerated.

If you don’t think continuing on benefits anyone, can you tell me how an election tomorrow benefits anyone but the CPC and mayyyybe the Bloc?

You’re also misrepresenting people a bit here. I doubt very much anybody particularly wants Singh to hold the line, there is just an acceptance that he really has no reason not to. I truly do not care if the election is tomorrow or October. If it’s late 2025, maybe things have turned. If it’s now, we get the next clown show over with sooner. Bonus either way. I’m also not assuming anyone is conservative, I’m directly talking about conservatives. But even if we say all conservatives are full of #### because they just want what’s best for them and all liberals are full of #### because they just want what’s best for them, then I guess we’re all just full of #### and might as well continue on with the conversation.



I’m really interested in responding to you and continuing this discussion based on the incredibly thoughtful points you’ve made. But I will settle for subscribing to your newsletter.

Fair enough, I respect your opinion, but I still don’t agree. I could be wrong, but I feel like the clown show will continue, and we’re going to end up with an election sooner rather than later.

I’m not going to pretend I’m an NDP supporter, but I genuinely believe Singh’s best move for his future is to be the one to pull the plug, rather than go down with it. With an astute campaign, he has a chance to position himself as a better option for the Left and even Centrists. Even if he loses the influence he’s had over the last couple of years, I think it’s already gone anyways, as I don’t see this government being able to function moving forward.

That’s why I’m not going to outright say he’s holding on just for his pension, but I can definitely see it being a factor. Otherwise, I don’t see how he benefits by dragging this out and looking like the guy who’s delaying the inevitable, especially if the government becomes completely dysfunctional.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Patek23

Fair enough, I respect your opinion, but I still don’t agree. I could be wrong, but I feel like the clown show will continue, and we’re going to end up with an election sooner rather than later.

I’m not going to pretend I’m an NDP supporter, but I genuinely believe Singh’s best move for his future is to be the one to pull the plug, rather than go down with it. With an astute campaign, he has a chance to position himself as a better option for the Left and even Centrists. Even if he loses the influence he’s had over the last couple of years, I think it’s already gone anyways, as I don’t see this government being able to function moving forward.

That’s why I’m not going to outright say he’s holding on just for his pension, but I can definitely see it being a factor. Otherwise, I don’t see how he benefits by dragging this out and looking like the guy who’s delaying the inevitable, especially if the government becomes completely dysfunctional.

Let’s be real though, Singh hasn’t run particularly astute campaigns thus far, even if he’s made the best of his time actually in office. They usually have a great platform and Singh personally does well in a debate, but whether it’s a funding issue or whatever, the effectiveness of their campaign just suffers.

People have been accusing him of being the guy propping up/dragging out this government for almost the entirety of their agreement. Be totally honest, do you actually think he could change that perception in 4-5 weeks if the election was called tomorrow? Would you vote for the NDP if they did?

[Patek23]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Let’s be real though, Singh hasn’t run particularly astute campaigns thus far, even if he’s made the best of his time actually in office. They usually have a great platform and Singh personally does well in a debate, but whether it’s a funding issue or whatever, the effectiveness of their campaign just suffers.

People have been accusing him of being the guy propping up/dragging out this government for almost the entirety of their agreement. Be totally honest, do you actually think he could change that perception in 4-5 weeks if the election was called tomorrow? Would you vote for the NDP if they did?

I wouldn’t vote NDP at the moment under any circumstances because I’d be worried about how much more spending there would be. I’d love to see a lot of the idealistic changes they want, but much like real life, I can only afford what I can manage, and I’d like to see government run with that same mindset.

As for the first question you asked, my answer is both yes and no. I’m aware they don’t have the financial resources of the Liberals or Conservatives, but that’s exactly why a snap election could benefit them more than a long, drawn-out, and heavily planned one. I also know several people in real life who vote in an “ABC” (anybody but the Conservatives) manner and always strategically cast their ballots accordingly. I could see a significant surge of votes from people like that.

Maybe I’m overestimating that effect, but with how polarized politics has become, I think a large part of the population would vote that way. I don’t believe it would be enough to stop a Conservative government from coming to power, but I do think the NDP could end up with far more seats now than if JT resigns and the Liberals manage to find someone who can shed the baggage and revamp their image by October.