2024 Toronto Blue Jays Season Thread

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Samonadreau

I think everybody learned a lesson from the Ohtani saga and nobody is buying the chance of Soto becoming a Jay.

At least not this guy.

I haven't talked to any Jays fans since this news that have reacted with more than a laugh.

[Party Elephant]

Originally Posted by browna

Looking back, the fact that the Jays even had a legitimate sniff at Ohtani last year was incredible and one that 26+ other teams didn't have.

I've said from the start, Soto only cares about money as far as choosing his destination goes this year, and the Jays are one of a few teams can offer that overpay. As well as partnering up with fellow Dominican Vlad.

That's why this works and why there is the possibility for Soto. There are lots of reasons why it won't work (The Score article above lays then all out) but the super rich owner is the reason the Jays would be in it, $ wise.

Given the stadium renos, the result last offseason, the results the last three seasons, the Jays need a PR boost. Yes there are other holes, but...

I mean if Rogers is going to be milking this country dry anyway the least they could do is give us an entertaining baseball team to watch.

[flambers]

Jays management, if they are truly focusing on Soto,

Really should be fired,

Two off-seasons in a row, they have done nothing but waste time....

[ben voyonsdonc]

I don’t have a problem with them making a play for Soto but my concern is that he won’t make a decision until it is too late for the Jays. Being a Boras guy, he’ll wait until he can extract max value. If the Jays wait, they could watch other important free agents drop off the market while they are chasing a guy who seems destined to stay in NY - with either the Yanks or the Mets.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by ben voyonsdonc

I don’t have a problem with them making a play for Soto but my concern is that he won’t make a decision until it is too late for the Jays. Being a Boras guy, he’ll wait until he can extract max value. If the Jays wait, they could watch other important free agents drop off the market while they are chasing a guy who seems destined to stay in NY - with either the Yanks or the Mets.

Basically same thing as last season,

Its sad, as I don't see any plan what so ever with the Jays

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by ben voyonsdonc

I don’t have a problem with them making a play for Soto but my concern is that he won’t make a decision until it is too late for the Jays. Being a Boras guy, he’ll wait until he can extract max value. If the Jays wait, they could watch other important free agents drop off the market while they are chasing a guy who seems destined to stay in NY - with either the Yanks or the Mets.

If they really have a separate budget for Soto then it shouldn't matter. They should know what players they would want with their "normal" budget and go after them.

But it's Atkins. There's so many lessons he should have learned over the years but it doesn't look like he has.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Inferno

If they really have a separate budget for Soto then it shouldn't matter. They should know what players they would want with their "normal" budget and go after them.

But it's Atkins. There's so many lessons he should have learned over the years but it doesn't look like he has.

I don't buy the separate budget thing. They're corporately owned and have the accountability to the shareholders. They're not going to go all out on Soto plus other high end guys. I hope they're kicking the tires on him, but that their true focus is filling in the numerous other holes with high end players instead of Soto. If they kick the tires and hear the price will be too much, focus on the other guys. They simply can't afford to go "all in" on one guy with so much else to fill, and realistically not spending that crazy money. Given that Vlad and potentially Bo need to be signed, I just can't see them going in on Soto aside from checking in.

[ben voyonsdonc]

There is no way that they can have a truly separate budget for Soto. He’s likely to get $650m over his contract and there just isn’t a way that they’d also add the pieces that they’d add if they didn’t sign Soto.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by ben voyonsdonc

There is no way that they can have a truly separate budget for Soto. He’s likely to get $650m over his contract and there just isn’t a way that they’d also add the pieces that they’d add if they didn’t sign Soto.

What I mean is there's going to be money left over even if they sign him so use it. They should have figured out what other players they could go after and fit under their budget even if they sign him and go after them.

Last year it seemed like they put 100% of their effort on Ohtani even though everyone knew where he would most likely end up then didn't know what to do when it happened.

They can't do the same this year.

[ben voyonsdonc]

Without Soto, they are likely needing to spend $65ish million on a big bat OF, DH, 3B, bullpen, and backup catcher plus Guerrero’s arb increase. Soto’s contract will likely be $50-55m per. If they get Soto they obviously wouldn’t need to spend on a big bat outfielder so that would cut out about $20m.That would mean they’d be looking at around an $100m increase over last year. It’s possible that they’d be willing to do that but it seems unlikely to me when they are also going to have to make a call on a long term deal with Guerrero.

If Soto doesn’t sign for months while guys like Santander and Hernandez are potentially going to go early in the off season, the Jays can’t afford to wait on a decision from Soto. They need to prioritize those kind of guys so that they don’t come up empty.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by ben voyonsdonc

Without Soto, they are likely needing to spend $65ish million on a big bat OF, DH, 3B, bullpen, and backup catcher plus Guerrero’s arb increase. Soto’s contract will likely be $50-55m per. If they get Soto they obviously wouldn’t need to spend on a big bat outfielder so that would cut out about $20m.That would mean they’d be looking at around an $100m increase over last year. It’s possible that they’d be willing to do that but it seems unlikely to me when they are also going to have to make a call on a long term deal with Guerrero.

If Soto doesn’t sign for months while guys like Santander and Hernandez are potentially going to go early in the off season, the Jays can’t afford to wait on a decision from Soto. They need to prioritize those kind of guys so that they don’t come up empty.

Exactly. Though I don’t really want Teo long term. Santander, bring him on.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by ben voyonsdonc

There is no way that they can have a truly separate budget for Soto. He’s likely to get $650m over his contract and there just isn’t a way that they’d also add the pieces that they’d add if they didn’t sign Soto.

Unless Soto defers like Ohtani did.

[Inferno]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1855690667365662905

[bluejays]

Who?

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Sidney Crosby's Hat

Unless Soto defers like Ohtani did.

Deferral doesn’t save the team money. The player signs a deal for current day money/ rates and then applies an interest rate and spreads it out over many years

It’s done to provide the player tax favourable future strategies (mostly)

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by bluejays

Who?

He was a journeyman who signed a minor league contract for them a couple of years ago and ended up making the opening day roster and ended up finally playing his first MLB game. They ended up DFAing him so they could call up Casey Lawrence and the Mets picked him up.

I remember fans were a little disappointed as he reminded them of Kawasaki.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Deferral doesn’t save the team money. The player signs a deal for current day money/ rates and then applies an interest rate and spreads it out over many years

It’s done to provide the player tax favourable future strategies (mostly)

It does in the present. Ohtani even said one of the reasons he was interested in a deffered contract was so that the Dodgers could add players. There's no salary cap in MLB but there's the luxury tax.

What ChatGPT says:

MLB teams often defer money in player contracts as a financial strategy to manage cash flow, salary cap flexibility, and long-term planning. Here’s why it’s beneficial:

Spreading Out Cash Flow: Deferring payments allows teams to keep more cash on hand in the present, which can be reinvested into team operations, player development, or other areas. This approach can make large contracts more financially manageable, especially for teams with tighter budgets.

Reducing Annual Salary Obligations: Deferred payments can lower a player’s annual salary cap or luxury tax hit, allowing teams more flexibility to sign other players. For example, if a team defers part of a star player’s contract, they might have more room in their current payroll to stay under the luxury tax threshold or to pursue additional players.

Easing Payroll Impact for Aging Players: Deferring part of a contract can reduce the team’s immediate payroll burden and help spread out payments to players who may still receive compensation even after retiring. This structure is attractive for retaining marquee players without straining the team's current financial situation.

Player Incentive: Some players prefer deferred contracts as they can receive a steady income stream over a longer period, which offers financial security after retirement. This approach, popularized by deals like Bobby Bonilla's with the Mets, can help players earn substantial interest on deferred money, making it financially advantageous.

Deferring money in MLB contracts essentially allows teams to plan for the future and stay competitive while managing immediate financial responsibilities.

[Jason14h]

Yeah none of that saves money . Cash flow only makes sense if an owner was cash flow poor in the short term but wouldn’t be in the long term . I guess going through a divorce or having assets locked up or something weird “could” theoretically cause that - or a small market team that is going for it and then knows they will be rebuilding / lower salary in the future and can’t make a large single season commitment (Not a Dodgers or even Jays issue )

Deferring money isn’t taking “less” for a player unless they are an idiot . Ohtani said it because he couldn’t come out and say “I deferred my money so when I retire I can move to a lower tax state (or Japan) to minimize California taxes

A player may prefer a deferred structure if the team is offering a larger rate of return then they can risk free lock in themselves . This happened with Bonilla when the Mets could offer a higher per annum return then he could get on the market deferring because they though they could beat the market (Hint - they couldn’t and were using a ROI based on Madoffs return rate which turned out to be fraudulent)

Even the luxury cap uses the current value of the deal to calculate .

Now I guess teams can gain a few percentages if they can arbitrage current value of money vs what the deferred payment is , but that’s a small rounding error in the grand scheme of things

Bobby Bonilla liked it because the interest rate the Mets were paying to defer was obscene - because they thought they could get the yearly ROI on investments Bernie Madoff was promising . They played themself

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Deferring money isn’t taking “less” for a player unless they are an idiot .

He's not taking less. He's getting paid less now (2 million/yr), the Dodgers are getting penalized as if they're paying him 46 million but he's getting 680 million after he retires until 2044.

So they are saving money right now even though they're getting penalized 44 million more a year than they're actually paying him. 2034 is when they have to start paying up when he's no longer playing for them but after 10 years they would have made so much money off of him that it would be a worthy investment.

But I highly doubt it will work out with the Blue Jays for Soto so it doesn't matter. Atkins just better have learned his lesson and not be stuck with his thumb up his ass again.

[bluejays]

Sounds like the media circus with Boras planting thoughts, has begun.

Got a Score alert that the Jays are definitely in it for Soto. Whether or not they are, I don't think the Jays management would get hopes up to their fanbase, so almost certainly they're not the ones leaking that info. Really sounds like Boras trying to force that upon the Jays to pony up their cash to not let their fanbase down.

Also there's a segment on TSN where Steve Philips thinks Vlad's contract is in the ballpark of $327 for 12 years. I have a problem with that term as nobody lives up to that, but the AAV truly isn't terrible. I don't think he's a generational talent as he believes. We don't know what he is as his numbers have been all over the map.