2007 CONCACAF Gold Cup

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by troutman

Is it time for video reviews in soccer?

Just make sure you use the NFL and not the NHL as an example of why it's needed.

[Mango]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

You can't review judgement calls (fouls) in any sport.
The only thing you could review in soccer is if the ball crossed the goal line or not and there's really no point in that.

Well, this is a example of a situation that should've been reviewed. In the NFL, a player stepping out of bounds can be reviewed, so why not this off-side call? The call directly impacted the outcome of the game.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

You can't review judgement calls (fouls) in any sport.
The only thing you could review in soccer is if the ball crossed the goal line or not and there's really no point in that.

You could review off-sides and penalties very easily.

[llama64]

Originally Posted by Mango

Well, this is a example of a situation that should've been reviewed. In the NFL, a player stepping out of bounds can be reviewed, so why not this off-side call? The call directly impacted the outcome of the game.

This is soccer mentality. The Referee (and his staff) is as much a part of the game as are the individual players. Every call is judged based entirely on subjective terms which leads to a common acceptance that "simulation" is a valid skill.

To put a ref's calls under video review would be a slight against the officials authority, and in a sport ruled by machismo, that just won't happen.

I wonder if any of the US players feel cheated as well. Their victory appears hollow to anyone who saw that game. I know I would be pissed off for not being allowed to compete fairly. Winning isn't everything.

[Mango]

Originally Posted by llama64

To put a ref's calls under video review would be a slight against the officials authority, and in a sport ruled by machismo, that just won't happen.

Good post.

I'll admit, I'm a more recent soccer fan (probably since the late 1990s). Has there always been credibility issues when it comes to reffing and non-calls? The Maradona incident always comes to mind, but I don't know if that one would fall under this category.

[VANFLAMESFAN]

Originally Posted by troutman

You could review off-sides and penalties very easily.

If you're suggesting they review fouls, there would be a reviews every other minute. I do believe you could review offsides though, but having said that, anytime a call is close, the coach would ask to have that reviewed and I got no issue with a ref mistake once in awhile, so I dont like the idea. Last night's non call sucks because it was so blatant and it was in the last second. I just don't like the logistics of review in soccer.

[llama64]

Originally Posted by VANFLAMESFAN

If you're suggesting they review fouls, there would be a reviews every other minute. I do believe you could review offsides though, but having said that, anytime a call is close, the coach would ask to have that reviewed and I got no issue with a ref mistake once in awhile, so I dont like the idea. Last night's non call sucks because it was so blatant and it was in the last second. I just don't like the logistics of review in soccer.

In many sports, each coach is given a number of time outs. Once used, their gone for that game.

What if the same idea was applied to reviews? Say each coach was given 1 review per half?

[Mango]

Originally Posted by llama64

What if the same idea was applied to reviews? Say each coach was given 1 review per half?

Perhaps similiar to what is being done in tennis?

[VANFLAMESFAN]

Originally Posted by llama64

In many sports, each coach is given a number of time outs. Once used, their gone for that game.

What if the same idea was applied to reviews? Say each coach was given 1 review per half?

And ruin the bad flow that soccer already has?? I don't wanna have 5 minute breaks during a half. What if both coaches uses each of their challenges in the half, you're gonna have 7-10 minutes of the players doing nothing, this will ruin the game.

[llama64]

Originally Posted by Mango

Perhaps similiar to what is being done in tennis?

I'm not familiar with tennis. What is going on in that world?

The biggest hurdle facing soccer remains the attitude of expected behavior. Trying to win by bending the rule and complaining to the official over every small niggly thing (possession on a throw in? come on) needs to be cracked down. Plus, some concrete rules and an automatic card for "simulation" would be nice.

[Mango]

Originally Posted by llama64

I'm not familiar with tennis. What is going on in that world?

Within each set, a player is allowed to challenge two calls. If the player is wrong on their first challenge, they forefit their second challenge. A sport like tennis relies on boundaries and often just a millimeter makes the difference. I like that the player has the opportunity to challenge a call, but they have to use their challenge wisely.

[Robbob]

Saw the highlights lasht and a couple things I noticed is that Canada was robbed on the goal and that one tackle on the Canadian was one of the hardest I've seen in soccer. I think the Canadian way of sports is probably one of the reason that wasn't a red. If the Canadian rolled around more a red card might have been given out. That is one of the reasons I get annoyed when I watch soccer. Players tend to drop too easy. Players don't flight through things any more. I don't find it as bad in the english leagues as the Euro leagues though.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by VANFLAMESFAN

If you're suggesting they review fouls, there would be a reviews every other minute. I do believe you could review offsides though, but having said that, anytime a call is close, the coach would ask to have that reviewed and I got no issue with a ref mistake once in awhile, so I dont like the idea. Last night's non call sucks because it was so blatant and it was in the last second. I just don't like the logistics of review in soccer.

Right - I'm only talking about video reviews on fouls that result in penalty kicks. And offsides that led to goals.

The logistics of review are better than the logistics of tainted games.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by ricoFlame

i disagree with that, offside is most often very clear on video, it's equally a "judgement call" as looing for a first down in football or anything else for that matter, they're essentially all judgement calls, even when looking at a ball crossing the line.

The goal line is fixed. It's a white line painted on the ground.
So is the first down line.

The offside line is person, a moving object. You'd have to have perfect camera angles and frozen at the excat time etc etc... And what is offside? Is it even with the defender.. is it half a body? is it a toe? Are you going to look at the replay 100 times to see if the guys dreadlocks were JUST in front?

It's a judgement call.

Conclusion: You can only review lines are are fixed. Even in hockey the high-stick over the crossbar or the "distinct kicking motion" reviews are very very iffy.

[sadora]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

And what is offside? Is it even with the defender.. is it half a body? is it a toe? Are you going to look at the replay 100 times to see if the guys dreadlocks were JUST in front?

It's a judgement call.

Yes, offside calls are judgement calls, but here is how FIFA defines the offside...

Decision 1
In the definition of offside position, “nearer to his opponents’ goal
line” means that any part of his head, body or feet is nearer to his
opponents’ goal line than both the ball and the second last opponent.

So, if an attacking player who is in line with a defender makes a forward motion before the ball is played to him/her, then they are in an offside position.

For more in FIFA's Laws of the game check out this link: http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affe...006_e_1581.pdf

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by sadora

Yes, offside calls are judgement calls, but here is how FIFA defines the offside...

Decision 1
In the definition of offside position, “nearer to his opponents’ goal
line” means that any part of his head, body or feet is nearer to his
opponents’ goal line than both the ball and the second last opponent.

So, if an attacking player who is in line with a defender makes a forward motion before the ball is played to him/her, then they are in an offside position.

For more in FIFA's Laws of the game check out this link: http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affe...006_e_1581.pdf

What about deflected balls.. what about 'passive' offside.
Maybe the rule is just too complex which makes it so controversial.
Maybe soccer needs a 35 yard blue-line!

I wouldn't like to be a linesman looking down the line. I'd be scared to blink!

[ricoFlame]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

So is the first down line.

no, it isn't. there are hash marks , but over most of the field, there are no lines.

[sadora]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

What about deflected balls.. what about 'passive' offside.
Maybe the rule is just too complex which makes it so controversial.
Maybe soccer needs a 35 yard blue-line!

I wouldn't like to be a linesman looking down the line. I'd be scared to blink!

There is no offside offence if a player receives the ball directly from:
• a goal kick or
• a throw-in or
• a corner kick

So a deflected ball doesn't really count towards negating the offside because it's not intentional and still gives the attacking player an advantage. If the defender was to pass the ball back to his keeper there would not be an offside because that's not an accident.

[Locke]

Little known fact: This is the third time this exact same ref has screwed Canada at the gold cup.

This time, every sports reporting service (TSN, ESPN, SN, SW) regardless of being Canadian, American or British was absolutely disgusted at this call, and had the balls to say it during their reports.

I haven't seen such an obviously bad call in International Soccer since the Hand of God, but I think its reasonably safe to say, that this Ref will spend the rest of his career reffing MLS, because his international days are done. He is tainted goods now.

Canada should be proud of coming back in the Second half as well as they did, seeing as how they were somewhat outplayed for the majority of the game. But outplayed doesnt mean anything if they arent outscored, and in this match they werent and shouldnt have been. I hope Mexico wins the whole thing, and the States should too. No one should win a tournament when they got to the Final riding a referee.

Locke.

PS. Congrats Sowa, I guess I owe that $10.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by ricoFlame

no, it isn't. there are hash marks , but over most of the field, there are no lines.

You can measure it with a chain