[News] Blues offersheet Broberg (2 yrs, $4.580 mil AAV) and Holloway (2 yrs, $2.290 mil AAV)

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by FlamesAreOne

Still can't believe how badly Edmonton fumbled this situation and lost their two best prospects for hardly anything.

Thank you, Jackson and Bowman!!!

Whoever the Oilers can add at the trade deadline will play a much larger role in Edmonton’s playoff chances compared to Broberg or Holloway.

Broberg was their worst D in the regular season at 5v5, and his 0.88 playoff GA/60 might look good until you see his expected GA/60 is 3.13, second only to Darnell Nurse.

He’s a top-10 pick who has failed to establish himself as a regular 5 years after he was drafted.

If the Blues want to gamble on him, it makes sense from their end - it costs them basically nothing, and the cap considerations are irrelevant. They add to players in their early 20s.

The Oilers really don’t need more fringe NHLers making way more than they ought to.

[FlamesAddiction]

I'm still not convinced that either player will amount to anything resembling their draft pedigree. Still not a bad gamble for the Blues considering what they are giving up.

I think in a few years, we'll be making more fun of the Oilers for their poor drafting and player development than for letting them get to the offer sheet point.

If I am wrong, that is fine too. Neither situation looks good for them.

[Groot]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Jeff Skinner signed for $3M after making $100M.

He’s got three straight 20 goal seasons and his last two were 30+.

Henrique is on a 2-year $6M deal - a 33 year old centre with 51 points last year gets more than that on the open market.

Arvidsson on a 2-year is a legit bounce back candidate, and $4M is not a bad number for him at all.

So it’s happened at least three times this off season alone.

It won’t be every player, but clearly there will always be quality veteran players who will take less after making their money to chase glory.

I don't know why you've chosen to carry water for the Oilers but whatever.

Henrique Is 34 years old, hasn't played a full season due to injury in 5 years, and he's a 3rd or 4th line player. He may be slightly more than $3 on the open market, but the Oilers gave him 2 years to bring the AAV down. $3 million for 2 years of a 34-year old, 3rd/4th line player that likely won't play more than 3/4 of the season. Hardly any discount.

Skinner made $100M as one of the worst contracts in the league. He's a huge risk. He's 32. He's a defensive liability and if he's not scoring he's useless. 1/4 of his goals were on the Powerplay. He won't be playing on the PP in Edmonton unless they give unit 2 a couple seconds every other game. He signed a fair value "show me" contract.

Yes, Arvidsson is a bounce back candidate. He's also an injury risk. A back injury for a 31-year old is no small thing, especially when it caused him to miss basically the season. Until another injury took him out after he returned. Regardless, his last contract was $4.25 per year. He signed for $4 per year. Hard to say he warranted getting a raise, he signed a contract that values 31-year old injury return Arvidsson the same as 24-year old, healthy and higher production Arvidsson. No discount there.

So no, it hasn't happened 3 times this offseason alone, it hasn't happened at all. Oilers signed risky vets to market value contracts, no matter what the Oilers media or insane fanboys try to sell you.

[HighLifeMan]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Whoever the Oilers can add at the trade deadline will play a much larger role in Edmonton’s playoff chances compared to Broberg or Holloway.

Broberg was their worst D in the regular season at 5v5, and his 0.88 playoff GA/60 might look good until you see his expected GA/60 is 3.13, second only to Darnell Nurse.

He’s a top-10 pick who has failed to establish himself as a regular 5 years after he was drafted.

If the Blues want to gamble on him, it makes sense from their end - it costs them basically nothing, and the cap considerations are irrelevant. They add to players in their early 20s.

The Oilers really don’t need more fringe NHLers making way more than they ought to.

Not really sure you can justify stating that he was their worst 5v5 defender, and regardless that was based on a 12 game sample size anyways. The year prior over a much larger sample size he was an analytical standout for the team, and showed that he was more than capable of being a full timer.

Additionally - was it his fault he failed to establish himself, or was it the organizations? Probably a bit of both, but the team clearly mishandled the asset.

[Vinny01]

The Blues are certainly attempting the rebuild on the fly approach. They had a big sell off in 2023 that landed them 2 additional 1st round picks including their own in the top 10. They made all of those picks and have signed youngish cornerstone pieces in Thomas and Kyrou. They have no intention of bottoming out so going after 22-23 year old guys and getting them for a 2nd, 3rd and cap space is a nice deal.

Will this plan work out for them? Tough to say but they absolutely fleeced the Rangers a couple years ago on Buch and do have a few decent vets on their roster.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Groot

I don't know why you've chosen to carry water for the Oilers but whatever.

Henrique Is 34 years old, hasn't played a full season due to injury in 5 years, and he's a 3rd or 4th line player. He may be slightly more than $3 on the open market, but the Oilers gave him 2 years to bring the AAV down. $3 million for 2 years of a 34-year old, 3rd/4th line player that likely won't play more than 3/4 of the season. Hardly any discount.

Skinner made $100M as one of the worst contracts in the league. He's a huge risk. He's 32. He's a defensive liability and if he's not scoring he's useless. 1/4 of his goals were on the Powerplay. He won't be playing on the PP in Edmonton unless they give unit 2 a couple seconds every other game. He signed a fair value "show me" contract.

Yes, Arvidsson is a bounce back candidate. He's also an injury risk. A back injury for a 31-year old is no small thing, especially when it caused him to miss basically the season. Until another injury took him out after he returned. Regardless, his last contract was $4.25 per year. He signed for $4 per year. Hard to say he warranted getting a raise, he signed a contract that values 31-year old injury return Arvidsson the same as 24-year old, healthy and higher production Arvidsson. No discount there.

So no, it hasn't happened 3 times this offseason alone, it hasn't happened at all. Oilers signed risky vets to market value contracts, no matter what the Oilers media or insane fanboys try to sell you.

One, because I enjoy talking hockey.

Two, what I want is for the Oilers to come away from this decade plus of futility with nothing. I don’t want them rewarded for tanking and getting four 1st overall picks, one of which happens to be the best player since Mario Lemieux.

So it would’ve been great if they’d paid a bottom pairing D and a bottom-6 forward $7M they don’t have.

Instead, they have cap space and capital to spend on whoever they want at the deadline, and I’m guessing those rentals are going to have a more of an impact than two kids who’ve combined for 31 points in 170 games.

Do you want them to win? Because they’re in a better position to do that now than they were before.

[NegativeSpace]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

One, because I enjoy talking hockey.

Two, what I want is for the Oilers to come away from this decade plus of futility with nothing. I don’t want them rewarded for tanking and getting four 1st overall picks, one of which happens to be the best player since Mario Lemieux.

So it would’ve been great if they’d paid a bottom pairing D and a bottom-6 forward $7M they don’t have.

Instead, they have cap space and capital to spend on whoever they want at the deadline, and I’m guessing those rentals are going to have a more of an impact than two kids who’ve combined for 31 points in 170 games.

Do you want them to win? Because they’re in a better position to do that now than they were before.

I'm not sure that I agree that they are in a better position than before. I feel like they signed historically more talented players - all forwards - who have their own concerns. Even without considering the past injury concerns, these players also could have poor chemisty or not fit into the system. In addition, players like Henrique that worked over a short time could be a flash in the pan and struggle over a full season.
In contrast Broberg and Holloway had the potential to pop adding to the roster in more substantial ways and they have lost Ceci who - despite his flaws as a player - gave them decent minutes.
When I look at the Oilers roster at present, in my view they have not made themselves more competitive to win in the playoffs. Their defence, size, and durability have become more questionable.
Now, they have more cap flexibility so they could potentially add some items to their list at the trade deadline. However, the season is long and injuries happen to all teams. So, it is tough sitting here today to determine how this roster will mesh and what the needs are today. If they have a bunch of cash to spend but there are no decent options available, then that doesn't help them much.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by NegativeSpace

I'm not sure that I agree that they are in a better position than before. I feel like they signed historically more talented players - all forwards - who have their own concerns. Even without considering the past injury concerns, these players also could have poor chemisty or not fit into the system. In addition, players like Henrique that worked over a short time could be a flash in the pan and struggle over a full season.
In contrast Broberg and Holloway had the potential to pop adding to the roster in more substantial ways and they have lost Ceci who - despite his flaws as a player - gave them decent minutes.
When I look at the Oilers roster at present, in my view they have not made themselves more competitive to win in the playoffs. Their defence, size, and durability have become more questionable.
Now, they have more cap flexibility so they could potentially add some items to their list at the trade deadline. However, the season is long and injuries happen to all teams. So, it is tough sitting here today to determine how this roster will mesh and what the needs are today. If they have a bunch of cash to spend but there are no decent options available, then that doesn't help them much.

Both are nothing but potential - they may as well be AHLers for all they’ve done.

You can’t pay two AHLers nearly $8M when you don’t have cap.

Skinner >>>>>>> Holloway. He’s making four hundred grand more than Holloway will this year, and he has 650 more points. He’s not a $9M player, but three straight 20 goal seasons and a combined -2 over the last three years for the Sabres? That’s a bargain and a half for a team like the Oilers.

I don’t like the Ceci trade either - I think they traded a solid, affordable player who was surely well liked in the room, and don’t have anyone to replace him.

They’re not likely to worry about nobody being available at the deadline - they aren’t going to need to add a superstar, they’re going to need to add reliable veterans who can skate.

Theyre probably good enough to scrape by until at least Christmas as they look to add to the roster, and they have all of their 2026 picks, plus Savoie to trade.

Your mileage on that plan may vary.

Personally, I’d choose that course over Dylan Holloway and Philip Broberg suddenly getting way better.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

The Blues are certainly attempting the rebuild on the fly approach. They had a big sell off in 2023 that landed them 2 additional 1st round picks including their own in the top 10. They made all of those picks and have signed youngish cornerstone pieces in Thomas and Kyrou. They have no intention of bottoming out so going after 22-23 year old guys and getting them for a 2nd, 3rd and cap space is a nice deal.

Will this plan work out for them? Tough to say but they absolutely fleeced the Rangers a couple years ago on Buch and do have a few decent vets on their roster.

If I'm the Blues, that has to be the plan.

They have Thomas, Kyrou, and Buch up front. Then they have Krug, Parayko, Leddy, and Faulk on defence. All of these guys are in their prime now. Thomas is a legit 1st line centre.

The team is still incomplete, but they are missing the kind of pieces you can pick up via shrewd trades or UFA signings. They have the big pieces that you typically need to get via draft.

[FlamesAreOne]

The Oilers will be worse. Again everything went right for them, injuries, career years, opposition come playoff time, etc. and they still couldn't win the cup. Add important players like Ekholm (34) another year older and I think they come back to reality.

[Groot]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

One, because I enjoy talking hockey.

Two, what I want is for the Oilers to come away from this decade plus of futility with nothing. I don’t want them rewarded for tanking and getting four 1st overall picks, one of which happens to be the best player since Mario Lemieux.

So it would’ve been great if they’d paid a bottom pairing D and a bottom-6 forward $7M they don’t have.

Instead, they have cap space and capital to spend on whoever they want at the deadline, and I’m guessing those rentals are going to have a more of an impact than two kids who’ve combined for 31 points in 170 games.

Do you want them to win? Because they’re in a better position to do that now than they were before.

The topic was players taking discounts to play there, but I guess we're just moving on from that.

They didn't get cap space by not signing the offer sheets. They got space by trading away Ceci. They lost the players because they still didn't have cap space to sign them without LTIR that would've just moved the problem to mid-season, and they valued the cap space they can accrue over the season more than the players apparently. So they're down a RD and have to find a D partner for Nurse before the season, plus down 2 young prospects, replaced with lesser prospects.

I do not think they are in a better position at all. I think their biggest weakness, defense, got worse. And if they don't do anything and let cap space acrue over the season, they can afford a 4.4 million player at the trade deadline, hardly a difference maker when their forward depth is also going to be an issue.

I cannot wait for the team to see it's not all roses and sunshine on the way to their destined Cup. I don't see them making it to the WCF again regardless of their cap space (all $170k of it) and then Draisatl will leave as a UFA and maybe get a 2nd round pick when a team trades for his rights. That's the beginning of the end and they'll be back in the basement within 12 months.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by Groot

I don't know why you've chosen to carry water for the Oilers but whatever.

Henrique Is 34 years old, hasn't played a full season due to injury in 5 years, and he's a 3rd or 4th line player. He may be slightly more than $3 on the open market, but the Oilers gave him 2 years to bring the AAV down. $3 million for 2 years of a 34-year old, 3rd/4th line player that likely won't play more than 3/4 of the season. Hardly any discount.

Skinner made $100M as one of the worst contracts in the league. He's a huge risk. He's 32. He's a defensive liability and if he's not scoring he's useless. 1/4 of his goals were on the Powerplay. He won't be playing on the PP in Edmonton unless they give unit 2 a couple seconds every other game. He signed a fair value "show me" contract.

Yes, Arvidsson is a bounce back candidate. He's also an injury risk. A back injury for a 31-year old is no small thing, especially when it caused him to miss basically the season. Until another injury took him out after he returned. Regardless, his last contract was $4.25 per year. He signed for $4 per year. Hard to say he warranted getting a raise, he signed a contract that values 31-year old injury return Arvidsson the same as 24-year old, healthy and higher production Arvidsson. No discount there.

So no, it hasn't happened 3 times this offseason alone, it hasn't happened at all. Oilers signed risky vets to market value contracts, no matter what the Oilers media or insane fanboys try to sell you.

Players with inconsistent play and lengthy injury histories were getting $5+ all over this offseason. Monahan, Bertuzzi, Wennberg, Zucker, Debrusk, Teravainen, etc.

I think most unbiased fans would agree the 3 Oilers vets you mention in your post left some money on the table.

Anything you say about Skinner being useless when he's not scoring you could apply to Mantha, and Skinner took less money than him despite scoring about 50 more goals over the last 3 seasons.

[Jay Random]

Skinner is 32 and has never played in the NHL playoffs, yet the Oilers expect him to help them win a championship.

Mantha is three years younger, is expected to help a rebuilding team lose games, and is being paid money that the Flames were required to spend anyway. Without his salary they would be more than $2 million below the floor.

It's a silly comparison.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Skinner is 32 and has never played in the NHL playoffs, yet the Oilers expect him to help them win a championship.

Mantha is three years younger, is expected to help a rebuilding team lose games, and is being paid money that the Flames were required to spend anyway. Without his salary they would be more than $2 million below the floor.

It's a silly comparison.

Yeah, I’m not saying it’s a great option, but Skinner at $3M is a better option for the Oilers in the next 12 months than Dylan Holloway at $2.29M.

What not matching does do is allow us to trade Mantha to Edmonton at the deadline for some of those picks they still have left.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Skinner is 32 and has never played in the NHL playoffs, yet the Oilers expect him to help them win a championship.

Mantha is three years younger, is expected to help a rebuilding team lose games, and is being paid money that the Flames were required to spend anyway. Without his salary they would be more than $2 million below the floor.

It's a silly comparison.

Skinner could have also taken more money and went to somewhere like San Jose and dicked around for a year and hope to get traded to a contender at the deadline.

Instead he took probably the least money out of anyone who scored 30+ goals in the last couple of years because I assume he wants to prove his value to a team with Cup aspirations.

Regardless of whether Skinner is going to be successful at helping a playoff team, he surely took a discount to try and prove it.

[Saqe]

Skinner is an anti-playoff type of player. Avoids contact at all costs and is small, can't handle contact. Cherry picks his offense too. I'm sure he will get his points in the regular season but there's literally nothing about him that makes me think he would be good in a deep playoff run.

[Groot]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

Skinner could have also taken more money and went to somewhere like San Jose and dicked around for a year and hope to get traded to a contender at the deadline.

Instead he took probably the least money out of anyone who scored 30+ goals in the last couple of years because I assume he wants to prove his value to a team with Cup aspirations.

Regardless of whether Skinner is going to be successful at helping a playoff team, he surely took a discount to try and prove it.

How much money did he take compared to players that were just bought out by their former team?

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by Groot

How much money did he take compared to players that were just bought out by their former team?

Well Suter just signed for under a million with St. Louis. I suspect its pretty common for guys being bought out or old to leave money on the table.

Patty Kane signed for $4 million in Detroit. Could have gotten more for sure.

It's not really that uncommon of an occurrence for guys to leave money on the table. It's just the first time those players chose to go to Edmonton.

[Groot]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

Well Suter just signed for under a million with St. Louis. I suspect its pretty common for guys being bought out or old to leave money on the table.

Patty Kane signed for $4 million in Detroit. Could have gotten more for sure.

It's not really that uncommon of an occurrence for guys to leave money on the table. It's just the first time those players chose to go to Edmonton.

Skinner is no Patrick Kane lol, so it anything he's overpaid. Got it.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

Players with inconsistent play and lengthy injury histories were getting $5+ all over this offseason. Monahan, Bertuzzi, Wennberg, Zucker, Debrusk, Teravainen, etc.

I think most unbiased fans would agree the 3 Oilers vets you mention in your post left some money on the table.

Anything you say about Skinner being useless when he's not scoring you could apply to Mantha, and Skinner took less money than him despite scoring about 50 more goals over the last 3 seasons.

You are comparing a guy who came here to pump his stats and get traded at the deadline, to a guy who got bought out, never made the playoffs to come help win a title.