Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Firebot

The westjet mechanics had a loophole they had to use available to them where they could legally still strike. Not sure if this is the same case as the ordering back to work appears to be part of the order (one of the likely reasons Seamus O'Regan 'stepped down')

Loophole? The order from the CIRB explicitly stated that the union still had the right to strike and that the company had the right to lock them out.

I am in agreement. It's very much a lose lose situation for the Liberals or any governing party. This is the better of the two options if looking at the better overall solution. Sitting back and eventually doing the same thing in the end with several days of interruptions would be worse.

Third option would have been to legislate CN back to work until the CPKC dispute was resolved, instead by ordering both back to work they’re giving both companies a get out of jail free card.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Loophole? The order from the CIRB explicitly stated that the union still had the right to strike and that the company had the right to lock them out.



Third option would have been to legislate CN back to work until the CPKC dispute was resolved, instead by ordering both back to work they’re giving both companies a get out of jail free card.

How convenient that CN got a year extension in 2022 so that both railways would be negotiating at the same time instead of being offset and avoiding the current situation.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by belsarius

How convenient that CN got a year extension in 2022 so that both railways would be negotiating at the same time instead of being offset and avoiding the current situation.

Are you implying that shenanigans may have been at play here?

[Azure]

I'm all for worker rights, and I understand the issues they are dealing with, but a strike that costs hundreds of millions per day is not the answer.

Simple fact is that had this gone on for an extended amount of time, a lot more than 9000 working class people would have had a very hard time.

[chemgear]

Just talk or actual action?

https://twitter.com/user/status/1826733753877889250

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Azure

I'm all for worker rights, and I understand the issues they are dealing with, but a strike that costs hundreds of millions per day is not the answer.

Kinda sounds like you’re not all for workers rights, more so you claim to be when it’s convenient. Reminds me of a number of politicians.

Simple fact is that had this gone on for an extended amount of time, a lot more than 9000 working class people would have had a very hard time.

Anytime you trample on the rights of workers you’re not limiting the damage only to the ones involved in the current dispute.

[Azure]

How does it send that message? To me it sends the message that the government of Canada is doing its job and making sure that millions of Canadians don't struggle even more because two private companies and 9000 workers can't get their #### figured out.

Again, no Canadian should have to deal with fallout in the billions of dollars because of this. And that is what it would have been a week from now.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Kinda sounds like you’re not all for workers rights, more so you claim to be when it’s convenient. Reminds me of a number of politicians.

Anytime you trample on the rights of workers you’re not limiting the damage only to the ones involved in the current dispute.

One thing is clear, you do not work in an industry that would have been severely affected by the lockout otherwise your perspective would change.

But nice to know that you would be okay with an indefinite strike / lockout. How many billions would you allow it cost the people of Canada? How many companies would have to go under? How many farmers unable to haul the harvest to the elevator? How big of a food shortage?

Oh right.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Azure

One thing is clear, you do not work in an industry that would have been severely affected by the lockout otherwise your perspective would change.

Sure thing buddy.

But nice to know that you would be okay with an indefinite strike / lockout.

Didn’t say that at all. My preference would have been for both companies to approach bargaining in good faith and avoid any disputes all together.

How many billions would you allow it cost the people of Canada? How many companies would have to go under? How many farmers unable to haul the harvest to the elevator? How big of a food shortage?

Oh right.

You’re saying that if this dispute went on longer than 24 hours a number of businesses would have went belly up? How many exactly?

Oh right.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Azure

How does it send that message? To me it sends the message that the government of Canada is doing its job and making sure that millions of Canadians don't struggle even more because two private companies and 9000 workers can't get their #### figured out.

It sends that message because two companies colluded(you’ve even acknowledged this) to achieve an outcome and the government handed it to them on a silver platter when other options were available that would have limited the impact of a dispute.

Again, no Canadian should have to deal with fallout in the billions of dollars because of this. And that is what it would have been a week from now.

Can you name a single canadian who would be losing billions of dollars?

[Ironhorse]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

You’re saying that if this dispute went on longer than 24 hours a number of businesses would have went belly up? How many exactly?

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Can you name a single canadian who would be losing billions of dollars?

Are you always this obtuse?

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Ironhorse

Are you always this obtuse?

Yes. But that answer doesn’t mean what you’re implying it would mean.

[curves2000]

Completely predictable, inept action in typical Canadian mediocrity style. Of course the feds couldn't have possibly pushed hard to avoid this entire shutdown, let's just announce binding arbitration just after **** has hit the fan from virtually everybody, including our trading partners, business, commuters and more.

Let's not add costs, inflation, delays, loss of income for workers and more to everybody, let's just watch paint dry and pick our noses until right after and pretend we are doing something.

Canada is so useless in this regard.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by curves2000

Completely predictable, inept action in typical Canadian mediocrity style. Of course the feds couldn't have possibly pushed hard to avoid this entire shutdown, let's just announce binding arbitration just after **** has hit the fan from virtually everybody, including our trading partners, business, commuters and more.

Let's not add costs, inflation, delays, loss of income for workers and more to everybody, let's just watch paint dry and pick our noses until right after and pretend we are doing something.

Canada is so useless in this regard.

You wanted the government to intervene in private business negotiations before there was a problem?

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by curves2000

Completely predictable, inept action in typical Canadian mediocrity style. Of course the feds couldn't have possibly pushed hard to avoid this entire shutdown, let's just announce binding arbitration just after **** has hit the fan from virtually everybody, including our trading partners, business, commuters and more.

Let's not add costs, inflation, delays, loss of income for workers and more to everybody, let's just watch paint dry and pick our noses until right after and pretend we are doing something.

Canada is so useless in this regard.

Haha your takes always crack me up. So you want more government intervention in the economy and more resources to be put towards the opioid crisis but you want a smaller tax burden. Totally makes sense.

Someone more knowledgeable than me can chime in but I don’t think Canada has the same mechanisms in place like the US did to avoid their strike but the outcome will likely be about the same as they lost a week or two of rail capacity as they caught up after slowing down as it looked like a strike would happen. This is about the quickest resolution that could have been expected.

[curves2000]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

You wanted the government to intervene in private business negotiations before there was a problem?

Yes! This is a national concern and an international embarrassment coming along the heels of other significant work stoppages, strikes, lockouts, border crossing blockades, port strikes, CBSA concerns and everything else I mentioned.

The railroads and the unions were too far apart in their dealings that it was always going to go down this route. to my knowledge there was nothing stopping the government from going with binding arbitration at all. Both side were not arguing about a point here and there. One side said 2+2 = 5 and the other side is saying that it equals kangaroo zoo. There was no discussion to be had between the two.

Government can indicate very strong preferences for a deal to be done, very strong. You can put the message out that both sides in whatever dispute can cut the ****. Effectively that is what binding arbitration tries to achieve.

Canada is the 2nd largest country in the world, 1 of our 2 major airlines had a strike/lockout a month ago that caused chaos with everybody and imposed untold financial and emotional hardship on travelers. Now we have both national railways that operate in Canada in the same scenario, both of which have significant US, Mexico and international exposure and dealings. Yesterday we had the other airline discussing strike/lockout actions. Great! More chaos ! Real serious country and business environment we have here.

The federal government is beyond useless in this regard and it shows, highlighted by the fact that literally every single business organization, trade group, provincial government and more specifically said do not allow this historic railway action to go through. We can't afford the concerns and the costs! Just so you don't think this is a Trudeau thing, I assume the other side would be just as useless in the exact same scenario.

Everybody forgetting that there are billions of dollars at stake and confidence in business and employment that needs to be restored. We are suppose to be a modern economy, this isn't a Pepsi stand that has closed up shop for lunch.

This reminds me of the Freedom Convey and the closure of the Ambassador Bridge linking Detriot and Windsor. Government officials of all stripes playing games and having a deer in the headlight look. Nothing getting done until the White House called with a "Knock this BS off and get this border open" and all of a sudden action takes place 5 days later.

[Bonded]

Rumblings the unions might say #### it and ignore the back to work legislation. Will know more in a few hours probably. Trains were moving last night though.

[Azure]

I don't think the government can legally get involved until a strike or lockout is declared.

But curves is right, the Feds have a history here of sitting on their ass and doing nothing until it comes to the breaking point.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

It sends that message because two companies colluded(you’ve even acknowledged this) to achieve an outcome and the government handed it to them on a silver platter when other options were available that would have limited the impact of a dispute.



Can you name a single canadian who would be losing billions of dollars?

There is no point in discussing this with you if you can't admit to the fact that hundreds of millions of dollars wouldn't be lost every single day, and that thousands of businesses & individuals across Canada would be affected, every SINGLE day.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Azure

I don't think the government can legally get involved until a strike or lockout is declared.

But curves is right, the Feds have a history here of sitting on their ass and doing nothing until it comes to the breaking point.

Ah, so:
- the government legally can’t act until a strike or lockout is declared
- the government acted as soon as legally possible
- we should still criticize the government for not acting before legally possible

This is logical.