[Signing] Flames sign Huberdeau to long term extension (8 yrs, $10.5 mil AAV)

[butterfly]

Imagine an 8-year deal that begins at 10% of cap and declines in a linear manner to end at 8% of cap. Foolish fans think it looks great ("The cap is going up!"), when the agent and GM both knew they were negotiating for 9% of cap the entire time.

It's no different than being locked into an 8-year agreement to pay 9% of cap, regardless of what the dollar amount turns out to be, though I don't think explicit agreements like that are allowed by the CBA and thus projection systems need to be employed as proxies to accomplish the same goal.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I just see it as a handicap, but you are right, there really isn't much point in talking about it now. Let's just hope that Conroy is able to fit-in all the important pieces down the road, and can identify the fat that he can cut off.

It is a handicap, but its not likely the Flames will be competing for the playoffs for at least 4-6 seasons anyway.

If they have a miraculous 2-3 year meteoric rise in the standings, it will probably be due to having some great contracts so they'll be able to withstand having a bad contract or two just like Dallas.

[GullFoss]

In a lot of ways, the Huby's contract is a blessing right now because he allows the Flames to reach the cap floor without the talent to match. Sure the Flames combined salary might be at roughly the cap floor of $66m. But one of their players is paid $10.5m and is worth about $3.5...so really they are icing a team that's $60m of talent. That gives the team a huge advantage in obtaining top-3 picks over the next number of years.

Conroy making lemonade out of lemons.

I for one, hope Huby sucks even more than usual this year.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

In a lot of ways, the Huby's contract is a blessing right now because he allows the Flames to reach the cap floor without the talent to match. Sure the Flames combined salary might be at roughly the cap floor of $66m. But one of their players is paid $10.5m and is worth about $3.5...so really they are icing a team that's $60m of talent. That gives the team a huge advantage in obtaining top-3 picks over the next number of years.

Conroy making lemonade out of lemons.

I for one, hope Huby sucks even more than usual this year.

Huberdeau’s contract is the complete opposite of a blessing, sorry.

You can always spend money, you don’t need to waste on a long term terrible contract.

Waste it on 1 year deals.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by butterfly

Imagine an 8-year deal that begins at 10% of cap and declines in a linear manner to end at 8% of cap. Foolish fans think it looks great ("The cap is going up!"), when the agent and GM both knew they were negotiating for 9% of cap the entire time.

It's no different than being locked into an 8-year agreement to pay 9% of cap, regardless of what the dollar amount turns out to be, though I don't think explicit agreements like that are allowed by the CBA and thus projection systems need to be employed as proxies to accomplish the same goal.

Everyone knows this, but it doesn't change the fact that at the end of the term, it is at 8%, which is easier to deal with than 9%, or the 10% that it started at.

[SilverKast]

What a turd, I don't care how good of a guy he is. You're judged by production vs the dollar amount of your contract, in this case there's zero defense for him. I don't feel the least bit sorry, he's collecting a whack of cash. I'm all for players getting what they can, but on the flip side if you turn into a turd then be prepared to be called on it.

Same as Nurse. Dude's a pylon.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Everyone knows this, but it doesn't change the fact that at the end of the term, it is at 8%, which is easier to deal with than 9%, or the 10% that it started at.

It's no easier to deal with. The agent for a player that a GM is trying to sign when that contract finally hits 8% in the final year knows the exact same thing and will rake them over the coals the same way, along with all of the contracts that are signed in the meantime.

The "cap going up" is not wallpaper that conceals poor choices in the past.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by butterfly

Imagine an 8-year deal that begins at 10% of cap and declines in a linear manner to end at 8% of cap. Foolish fans think it looks great ("The cap is going up!"), when the agent and GM both knew they were negotiating for 9% of cap the entire time.

It's no different than being locked into an 8-year agreement to pay 9% of cap, regardless of what the dollar amount turns out to be, though I don't think explicit agreements like that are allowed by the CBA and thus projection systems need to be employed as proxies to accomplish the same goal.

Also, while the percentage of the cap he takes up goes down as the cap rises, but players also typically start providing less value as they age past 30, so it's relative. Based on Huberdeau's past 2 seasons, I don't expect him keep pace.

There is a good chance based on his decline that by the time he is only taking up 8% of the cap or whatever, he is also on the 4th line or a regular healthy scratch. What's worse, making 10-12% of the cap being a regular 2nd/3rd liner as he is now, or making 8% of the cap and bringing nothing at all.

If the rebuild and drafting goes well, there is probably going to come a time that we are going to pay a heafty price to move that contract.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Also, the cap goes ups as the percentage of the cap he takes up goes down, but players also typically start providing less value as they age past 30, so it's relative. Based on Huberdeau's past 2 seasons, I don't expect him keep pace.

There is a good chance based on his decline that by the time he is only taking up 8% of the cap or whatever, he is also on the 4th line or a regular healthy scratch. What's worse, making 10-12% of the cap being a regular 2nd/3rd liner as he is now, or making 8% of the cap and bringing nothing at all.

If the rebuild and drafting goes well, there is probably going to come a time that we are going to pay a heafty price to move that contract.

Agreed. I would try to use the cap space that exists now to take on a dead contract for a 1st round pick (say 2027), and just keep trading that pick for a future 1st (28, 29, 30) until we need to give it to some other team to take Huberdeau. If he'll even waive.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

It is a handicap, but its not likely the Flames will be competing for the playoffs for at least 4-6 seasons anyway.

If they have a miraculous 2-3 year meteoric rise in the standings, it will probably be due to having some great contracts so they'll be able to withstand having a bad contract or two just like Dallas.

I think a wild card in this discussion is that the CBA is set to expire 2026. This could open the door on several fronts.

Will the annual % increase in cap go up? Buyout clause changes? Compliance buyouts permitted (unlikely, I’ll admit)? What about a softening of the cap going to something more flexible? Equalization between non-tax states and others? Given the pit of the Coyotes have been replaced by what should be a strong market in Utah and further expansion being discussed, is it also possible the the cap could see significant increases beyond the current allotment of 5%? Frankly the NHL is getting lapped by the other 3 major North American leagues and MLS is in the rear view mirror.

I mentioned it yesterday, but there are so many factors at play that could really changes things over the next 2-5 years. Least of all, Huberdeau returning to form as a 90point player. If Huberdeau can put up two seasons, let’s say, at 90 points, I think the whole conversation changes. Term and age would still be an issue but I don’t think he would be in the ‘worst contract in the league’ conservation and could be a moveable player.

I just think there are so many variables here that one player/contract isn’t going to hold down any one team.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by TOfan

I mentioned it yesterday, but there are so many factors at play that could really changes things over the next 2-5 years. Least of all, Huberdeau returning to form as a 90point player. If Huberdeau can put up two seasons, let’s say, at 90 points, I think the whole conversation changes. Term and age would still be an issue but I don’t think he would be in the ‘worst contract in the league’ conservation and could be a moveable player.

90 points?

Even in his “hot” 2nd half last year he managed a 60 point pace. Even average players getting premium ice time and PP time can manage that.

Players who get 90 points are playing on a very good line surrounded by very good players.

There is nothing in his play that suggests he can go from 53 to 90 points.

[Saqe]

If the team starts to play high octane offense then I think Huberdeau can get back to PPG pace. But that's pretty much it.

[Ped]

Yeah that year he hit 115 there were quite a few outliers on that team. Reinhart a career high in points (at the time). Duclair a career high by 16 points. Ekblad a career high in points by 16, and almost a PPG. Bennett a career high in goals by 8. Marchment almost a PPG. Giroux 20 assists in 18 games coming off 2.5 down seasons. Some guy named Maxim Mamin had 14 points in 40 games; in 33 previous NHL games he had 7 points, and he's never played a game since.


Appears to be one of those seasons where everything goes right offensively for a lot of guys.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

90 points?

Even in his “hot” 2nd half last year he managed a 60 point pace. Even average players getting premium ice time and PP time can manage that.

Players who get 90 points are playing on a very good line surrounded by very good players.

There is nothing in his play that suggests he can go from 53 to 90 points.

You have to take the last month of play with a grain of salt. No one performed after the TDL.

At the end of the day this is a silly topic anyway. The contract is signed, the GM who signed it is gone. It's just part of the makeup of the team. No use whining about it.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

90 points?

Even in his “hot” 2nd half last year he managed a 60 point pace. Even average players getting premium ice time and PP time can manage that.

Players who get 90 points are playing on a very good line surrounded by very good players.

There is nothing in his play that suggests he can go from 53 to 90 points.

Sure, 90 points is probably too optimistic but point per game might not be. There were a few hockey journalists predicting a return to ppg for Huberdeau at the start of last season. Granted, a heavy grain of salt should be taken with that. Also, start of the season projections are really nothing more than fluff.

Nevertheless, I don’t believe Huberdeau is DOA, yet. 90 points, might be too optimistic but 70-80 could be within reach. Does that make him movable?

To Gio’s comment it’s likely moot. The Flames and Huberdeau are all but likely attached to one another for another 4 years, I think. Short of a Neal for Lucic like trade, problem for problem, that is.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Sure, 90 points is probably too optimistic but point per game might not be. There were a few hockey journalists predicting a return to ppg for Huberdeau at the start of last season. Granted, a heavy grain of salt should be taken with that. Also, start of the season projections are really nothing more than fluff.

Nevertheless, I don’t believe Huberdeau is DOA, yet. 90 points, might be too optimistic but 70-80 could be within reach. Does that make him movable?

To Gio’s comment it’s likely moot. The Flames and Huberdeau are all but likely attached to one another for another 4 years, I think. Short of a Neal for Lucic like trade, problem for problem, that is.

Right. So why do we keep going over the same turf? It's boring and pointless.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Right. So why do we keep going over the same turf? It's boring and pointless.

You and TOFan post in this thread as much as anyone and you’ve readily admitted you’re saying the same thing over and over. I don’t really mind the debate but if the discussion is so pointless, maybe just disengage?

[AFireInside]

Originally Posted by SilverKast

What a turd, I don't care how good of a guy he is. You're judged by production vs the dollar amount of your contract, in this case there's zero defense for him. I don't feel the least bit sorry, he's collecting a whack of cash. I'm all for players getting what they can, but on the flip side if you turn into a turd then be prepared to be called on it.

Same as Nurse. Dude's a pylon.

This issue is as much on the Flames organization as it is on him. You can't bring in a playmaker and play him with people who can't score, put him in a powerplay system that's an absolute joke and expect him to do anything.

McDavid couldn't make Lucic a 25 goal guy why did we expect Huberdeau to do it?

[Paulie Walnuts]

It’s hilarious that people are calling this a debate. Especially when you have dumb suggestions like he should void his contract.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

It’s hilarious that people are calling this a debate. Especially when you have dumb suggestions like he should void his contract.

As much as his contract blows at least it won’t be hampering the flames chances at success. He’s pretty terrible and as a fan base we’re stuck with him because he’s not going to pass up on the huge bucks he’s making. Hopefully he can be LTIRetired by the time we are competitive again. It’s bad enough that he’s the worst contract in the league, but impeding the teams future success because of his pay would be quite embarrassing.