This is a rebuild

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by YyjFlames

Cap issues.

In five and six years, this team will hopefully be top of the standings, having Parekh, Coronato, Wolf, Honzek, the 2025 pick, Joe Iginla (Vegas 2026 pick) all making $8-10 million a year, and they won't be able to resign Gavin McKenna to $12m x 8 because Huberdeau's still making his money.

First world problems. If you have 6 top players justifying an average of $9M per year as RFAs, which is 50% of a $110M cap, that ain't bad.

[YyjFlames]

Originally Posted by Bingo Jr.

At least his contract can be moved/bought out by that point.

He'll still have a hefty cap hit for the last couple years of his deal with a buy out.

They'll be able to figure it out; it's just going to make things more difficult.

[YyjFlames]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

First world problems. If you have 6 top players justifying an average of $9M per year as RFAs, which is 50% of a $110M cap, that ain't bad.

Might seem like it's not a big deal now with so much cap space, but are you forgetting the last few years where things were super tight -- or ignoring teams like TB losing their top stars because they can't fit everyone in?

Kadri's expires at the right time. Huberdeau's is two years too long and it'll hurt.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by YyjFlames

Might seem like it's not a big deal now with so much cap space, but are you forgetting the last few years where things were super tight -- or ignoring teams like TB losing their top stars because they can't fit everyone in?

Kadri's expires at the right time. Huberdeau's is two years too long and it'll hurt.

There was a global pandemic that caused the players to owe the owners a billion dollars, hence the flat cap for the last few years.

It’s not to say the cap doesn’t need to be managed, but we are rapidly approaching a point where the cap is going to be too high to get too ####ed up - they’re going to have to overpay guys just to reach the floor when it’s $85 or $90 million.

[YyjFlames]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

There was a global pandemic that caused the players to owe the owners a billion dollars, hence the flat cap for the last few years.

It’s not to say the cap doesn’t need to be managed, but we are rapidly approaching a point where the cap is going to be too high to get too ####ed up - they’re going to have to overpay guys just to reach the floor when it’s $85 or $90 million.

Yeah, that made it a little trickier, but teams are always going to spend to a hard cap to be competitive, and player agents will always demand higher wages if the money is available or they'll go elsewhere.

With a hard cap and profit sharing, we're not going to all of a sudden see a bunch of teams with room--maybe one or two, but the majority will spend to the cap.

[flamesfan55]

I feel a lot of people are going to be disappointed that the Flames will finish higher then expected.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Bingo Jr.

At least his contract can be moved/bought out by that point.

Huberdeau has an awful contract to buy out. It blows my mind that they wouldn't have structured it better.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by blankall

Huberdeau has an awful contract to buy out. It blows my mind that they wouldn't have structured it better.

The closer you get to the end the easier it is though. Plus, under the fact scenario laid out, he might be an attractive add for a team with retention.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

There was a global pandemic that caused the players to owe the owners a billion dollars, hence the flat cap for the last few years.

It’s not to say the cap doesn’t need to be managed, but we are rapidly approaching a point where the cap is going to be too high to get too ####ed up - they’re going to have to overpay guys just to reach the floor when it’s $85 or $90 million.

Pre-pandemic NHL revenue was 5.09 billion. Before the playoffs ended, revenue was already at 6.2 billion. We are still feeling the recession and spending/salaries haven't caught up to inflation.

When the dust settles, the cap is going to be up another 20-30%, minimum.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

The closer you get to the end the easier it is though. Plus, under the fact scenario laid out, he might be an attractive add for a team with retention.

The thing is it's not..In his last year, if you buy him out, you're still paying $6.833 million. At those numbers, unless he's totally useless, you gain more having him on the roster than buying him out and paying for a replacement.

If you buy him out with 2 years left, you actually add cap in the second last year and then save about $4.4 million in the last year.

If you buy out with 3 years left, the cap savings become:
$2,388,889
$-111,111
$4,388,889
$-1,111,111
$-1,111,111
$-1,111,111

That's horrendously bad for a buyout. How do you sell the owners paying out over $20 million to do that?

[YyjFlames]

Originally Posted by blankall

The thing is it's not..In his last year, if you buy him out, you're still paying $6.833 million. At those numbers, unless he's totally useless, you gain more having him on the roster than buying him out and paying for a replacement.

If you buy him out with 2 years left, you actually add cap in the second last year and then save about $4.4 million in the last year.

If you buy out with 3 years left, the cap savings become:
$2,388,889
$-111,111
$4,388,889
$-1,111,111
$-1,111,111
$-1,111,111

That's horrendously bad for a buyout. How do you sell the owners paying out over $20 million to do that?

Ugh. What a bad deal. You can really see the desperation that Treleving felt... and the agent capitalizing.

Huberdeau deserves all the criticism he gets with signing a deal like that and underperforming so badly in the first couple years.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by YyjFlames

Ugh. What a bad deal. You can really see the desperation that Treleving felt... and the agent capitalizing.

Huberdeau deserves all the criticism he gets with signing a deal like that and underperforming so badly in the first couple years.

It was the same contract as Huberdeau

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Bonded

It was the same contract as Huberdeau

You mean Gaudreau?

I don't get why Huberdeau should be criticized for signing a deal which favours himself. He should make himself easier to buy out? Weird.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

You mean Gaudreau?

I don't get why Huberdeau should be criticized for signing a deal which favours himself. He should make himself easier to buy out? Weird.

When Huberdeau signs that contract and then plays like crap, he shouldn't make a peep about being dissatisfied with the situation he's in. He cashed in. He's stuck with the consequences of that cash in.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

You mean Gaudreau?

I don't get why Huberdeau should be criticized for signing a deal which favours himself. He should make himself easier to buy out? Weird.

Yup lol. Definitely meant Gaudreau. Pretty much can guarantee all they changed was the name on it.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by blankall

When Huberdeau signs that contract and then plays like crap, he shouldn't make a peep about being dissatisfied with the situation he's in.

He has talked about being dissatisfied with his production. He isn't a sports robot, he can feel frustrated it hasn't worked out. He isn't pouting like Neal was.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by blankall

When Huberdeau signs that contract and then plays like crap, he shouldn't make a peep about being dissatisfied with the situation he's in. He cashed in. He's stuck with the consequences of that cash in.

I must have missed the peep.

[YyjFlames]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

You mean Gaudreau?

I don't get why Huberdeau should be criticized for signing a deal which favours himself. He should make himself easier to buy out? Weird.

I'm not saying that players shouldn't try and get as much security and money as a dumb or desperate GM will pay them, but if they don't perform, fans and teams can and should be critical.

Huberdeau isn't producing and once he hits 35, when the Flames will need his cap most, he'll probably start getting worse.

[Bandwagon Surfer]

Originally Posted by YyjFlames

Cap issues.

In five and six years, this team will hopefully be top of the standings, having Parekh, Coronato, Wolf, Honzek, the 2025 pick, Joe Iginla (Vegas 2026 pick) all making $8-10 million a year, and they won't be able to resign Gavin McKenna to $12m x 8 because Huberdeau's still making his money.

I am not seeing how we will have cap issues earlier enough that it will be an issue. HIf I am reading thing right, Huberdeau and Kadri are off the books for 2028-2029 season. Which leaves us with 4 seasons with them on the books (2024-2025, 2025-2026, 2026-2027, 2027-2028).

We only have Parekh as a high star potential prospect right now. Lets say everything goes right and he makes the nhl out of camp, which will start his 3 years of cheap ELC in 2024-2025, leaving only the 2027-2028 season where Parekh is getting paid and Huberdeau is still on the books.

The rest of our star players are going to come from drafting high in the next few years, which means that by the time their ELCs end, Huberdeau will be gone. If anything the timing is perfect for having cap room appear right as ELCs are ending. The worst possible thing we could do is something like a buyout that would push the cap hit forward into the years where we should be competitive.

If we cannot afford 1 year of overlap with Parekh's post ELC raise, then our rebuild has failed. To be successful we should have a bunch of star players needing to be paid in the following years. If we managed to create a cap problem so early that we are struggling to sign our first star, there is no way we would be able to keep the rest together and add players to push for the cup.

[Bingo Jr.]

Huberdeau is on the books until 2030-2031. 7 years left still.