American Politics 3.0 - Back to Brunch

[MoneyGuy]

Essential reading.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1807195762192724403

[direwolf]

Yikes, that is some scary s***. Good luck, America.

[MoneyGuy]

She and her colleague put a lot of work into that. Problem side who most need to read it won’t because Project 2025 aligns with their demented views.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Jacks

How do you figure?
Unless something has changed a Liberal leadership review is only triggered by an election loss, I think it's the same for the Conservatives, NDP you'd have to wait for their convention. Michael Chongs 2015 reform act would have made it fairly easy but the Liberals and NDP chose not to adopt those rules, the Conservatives adopted some of the rules but I don't think the ones that allowed for a leadership change. I think technically the PM could ignore the fixed election date and stay on a full 5 years if he/she really wanted to. The only way anyone could stop them would be to vote non-confidence and force an election. Even then the government would have to recognize the motion as a confidence vote, Martin flat out ignored a motion that said the house had lost confidence in his government, Harper prorogued Parliament to avoid one. If a PM has a majority it's almost impossible to get rid of them if they don't want to go.

Thanks for the correction, I didn't know that.



CBC did an article on it a while ago:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/tru...nism-1.7096351


I guess we do have the never before used safety of the Governor General to remove them, should they be really really really bad.

[afc wimbledon]

I think it's important to recognize though that in Canada, as in the UK, the Government is the Party so if the PM lost the confidence of the party it also effectively means the Cabinet

A party/administration could force a Prime Minister out by resigning on mass

[Ozy_Flame]

Basically that manifesto (Project 2025) wants feudalism back. The President would have unchecked and overarching power, everyone in the civil service would be qualified on who they voted for, and the 'traditional family' will have no deviations from it.

So effectively, a return to the middle ages, and if you're a King or a monarch, you'll be tickled pink if this comes to light.

I hope Republicans like being fiefs if you're not a vassal. Especially Gen Z who want this dystopian trainwreck.

[Looch City]

Maybe the US, and really North America as a whole, needs to experience Project 2025 first.

Like 4 year purge to get this bat#### crazy ultra right out of our system.

Bring it on baby, Trump and Poilievre show me the LIGHT!

[Rutuu]

Originally Posted by Itse

[B]It really isn't. The checks and balances of a democratic system only work, if all sides respect the rules and want to uphold the democracy. We've seen time and time again that they have have a tendency to fail when challenged by populist authoritarianism.

The US system is actually more vulnerable than many others because so much power is centralized in the White House. Additionally, much of the political system is archaic and based in either tradition or legal precedent instead of, for example, constitutional law.

Bolded: Agree, but isn't this every human system of government. Autocrats have to pay off so many people to stay in power too. I'm not aware of every coup d'état, but from my recollection you need the military to be in on it. The US military is sworn to uphold the constitution. Even the most repugnant politician in their system also has to answer to their electorate. Without a willing military and rigged elections democracy is tough to tumble. How do you rig an election without the courts and people on your side or the military standing there with a gun?

Underlined: Agree in definition, but disagree in practice. While the individual position of President has more powers bestowed on it than a PM in Canada, UK, Aus, NZ, etc. A PM with a majority can effect change easily. A President can rule by executive order, but Federal Courts can put a stop to these as can congress. Of course you can stack judges, but both parties do this, so there is a mix, even if the current Supreme Court leans for the red team. The issue there is more life long appointment.

Project 2025: These types of policy papers have come out for decades. Its not really new, as are the asks coming out of the think tank that created it.

My read has been, Trump himself only really cares about himself and having people praise him. Will he use the DOJ to hunt his enemies, sure. Will he randomly fire entire swathes of government employees like Twitter if someone gets in his ear, maybe. Will he cut support for foreign wars, most definitely (the guy has always been anti war), but Europe should have seen this coming a mile away.

Will social issues become "state issues", well that's more the long term dream of the plan to get the courts onside. Having abortion be a state issue has backfired though, and the others likely will as well. The American people lean more left of their right party, and its a bit sad that the centrists that vote for the red team are stuck in a system that holds them hostage to more extreme social policies of a minority of their party.

TLDR: Youth unemployment is far too low to even have a chance at overthrowing American democracy.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Rutuu

Bolded: Agree, but isn't this every human system of government. Autocrats have to pay off so many people to stay in power too. I'm not aware of every coup d'état, but from my recollection you need the military to be in on it. The US military is sworn to uphold the constitution. Even the most repugnant politician in their system also has to answer to their electorate. Without a willing military and rigged elections democracy is tough to tumble. How do you rig an election without the courts and people on your side or the military standing there with a gun?

Underlined: Agree in definition, but disagree in practice. While the individual position of President has more powers bestowed on it than a PM in Canada, UK, Aus, NZ, etc. A PM with a majority can effect change easily. A President can rule by executive order, but Federal Courts can put a stop to these as can congress. Of course you can stack judges, but both parties do this, so there is a mix, even if the current Supreme Court leans for the red team. The issue there is more life long appointment.

Project 2025: These types of policy papers have come out for decades. Its not really new, as are the asks coming out of the think tank that created it.

My read has been, Trump himself only really cares about himself and having people praise him. Will he use the DOJ to hunt his enemies, sure. Will he randomly fire entire swathes of government employees like Twitter if someone gets in his ear, maybe. Will he cut support for foreign wars, most definitely (the guy has always been anti war), but Europe should have seen this coming a mile away.

Will social issues become "state issues", well that's more the long term dream of the plan to get the courts onside. Having abortion be a state issue has backfired though, and the others likely will as well. The American people lean more left of their right party, and its a bit sad that the centrists that vote for the red team are stuck in a system that holds them hostage to more extreme social policies of a minority of their party.

TLDR: Youth unemployment is far too low to even have a chance at overthrowing American democracy.

the weakness for the US particularly is it's regionalization, you are right that 'the US' likely couldn't be overthrown but it can very easily be split in two or three parts

[Rutuu]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

the weakness for the US particularly is it's regionalization, you are right that 'the US' likely couldn't be overthrown but it can very easily be split in two or three parts

Maybe. There's a pretty strong American identity. Despite regional differences Americans can unite around their love of their country.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Rutuu

Maybe. There's a pretty strong American identity. Despite regional differences Americans can unite around their love of their country.

You spent much time around Maga's? they hate the big cities, the East Coast, Cali and the west

[Rutuu]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

You spent much time around Maga's? they hate the big cities, the East Coast, Cali and the west

Nope.

Where I live though there are lots of POMs, and they wrote the book on complaining. Some people are never going to be happy, doesn't mean they're going to overthrow the government though.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Basically that manifesto (Project 2025) wants feudalism back. The President would have unchecked and overarching power, everyone in the civil service would be qualified on who they voted for, and the 'traditional family' will have no deviations from it.

So effectively, a return to the middle ages, and if you're a King or a monarch, you'll be tickled pink if this comes to light.

I hope Republicans like being fiefs if you're not a vassal. Especially Gen Z who want this dystopian trainwreck.

65% of 18-24 yo voted Democrat last time. 31% Republican.

Even in 2016 under 40s voted Democrat; over 40 Republican.

But ultimately it's just white people who ####ed it. Particularly white evangelical/born-again who voted 81% republican (16% Dem). Everyone else voted 58% Dem to 35% Red.

Amazingly white evangelicals were only 26% of the vote (everyone else accounting for 74%). The system is so ####ed up that those 26% were basically enough to win.

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by Rutuu

Bolded: Agree, but isn't this every human system of government. Autocrats have to pay off so many people to stay in power too. I'm not aware of every coup d'état, but from my recollection you need the military to be in on it. The US military is sworn to uphold the constitution. Even the most repugnant politician in their system also has to answer to their electorate. Without a willing military and rigged elections democracy is tough to tumble. How do you rig an election without the courts and people on your side or the military standing there with a gun?

Underlined: Agree in definition, but disagree in practice. While the individual position of President has more powers bestowed on it than a PM in Canada, UK, Aus, NZ, etc. A PM with a majority can effect change easily. A President can rule by executive order, but Federal Courts can put a stop to these as can congress. Of course you can stack judges, but both parties do this, so there is a mix, even if the current Supreme Court leans for the red team. The issue there is more life long appointment.

Project 2025: These types of policy papers have come out for decades. Its not really new, as are the asks coming out of the think tank that created it.

My read has been, Trump himself only really cares about himself and having people praise him. Will he use the DOJ to hunt his enemies, sure. Will he randomly fire entire swathes of government employees like Twitter if someone gets in his ear, maybe. Will he cut support for foreign wars, most definitely (the guy has always been anti war), but Europe should have seen this coming a mile away.

Will social issues become "state issues", well that's more the long term dream of the plan to get the courts onside. Having abortion be a state issue has backfired though, and the others likely will as well. The American people lean more left of their right party, and its a bit sad that the centrists that vote for the red team are stuck in a system that holds them hostage to more extreme social policies of a minority of their party.

TLDR: Youth unemployment is far too low to even have a chance at overthrowing American democracy.

I think there's a number of important things you're not taking into account. Please consider:

1) the way Putin transformed Russia, and Orban transformed Hungary

2) the way Hitler rose to power in the 1930s (he was elected, gained more power and influence over time, culminating in the enabling act of 1933); he wasn't placed into power via violent coup

3) Trump can prosecute and/or kill his political opposition, causing a chilling effect, to the point where no serious contender will ever emerge to challenge him in any election. He can also have unfriendly media outlets shut down or sold to his cronies, just like Orban has done in Hungary

4) Trump's constant accusations of his political opposition as "radical Marxists destroying America". Trump's use of direct language used by the Nazis to describe Jews, repurposed to describe undocumented immigrants (vermin, poisoning the blood, etc)

5) this Supreme Court has gone completely rogue; they are already ripping America apart at the seams. The overturning of Roe was just the tip of the iceberg. The overturning of Chevron ruling is a huge, flashing red light for anyone who cares even one iota about decency or a reasonably functioning society. This court has done (and continues to do) everything it possibly can to delay Trump's court trials until after inauguration day, so he can have them thrown out. It is very clearly corrupted and acting in fealty to Trump.

So while yes, the troops must adhere to the constitution, the power to interpret the constitution resides with the courts, the very courts Trump has already captured. So no there won't be any meaningful restrictions on Trump's power if he gets back into office.

[activeStick]

Haven't heard from O'Reilly for years now ever since he left Fox News, so not sure how reliable he is.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1807457358794109407

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by activeStick

Haven't heard from O'Reilly for years now ever since he left Fox News, so not sure how reliable he is.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1807457358794109407

Not at all. He's been throwing spaghetti at the walls for a couple of years now looking for eyeballs

[Cecil Terwilliger]

And other sources say Dems actually raised more money after the debate and despite the media hysteria, Biden actually did ok.

[direwolf]

I’ll believe it when I see it. If it’s true, I certainly hope they’ll pick someone younger who can call Trump out on his insane fascist bulls***. Hopefully someone who can inspire the undecideds to get off the fence and vote blue.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

The first point I guess I could kinda see, maybe.....the fundraising part? Don't buy that at all.

[photon]

From the Biden campaign...

"Team Biden-Harris has raised over $33M since Thursday, of which $26M is from grassroots donations. Nearly half of our grassroots donations were from first-time donors to the campaign this cycle. Thursday was our best grassroots fundraising day ever,"