Facts are weather, cold weather, location of the pipe and more all increase the length of time for the repair as per the City of Calgary since your all about facts and solving problems. I can't believe I am actually arguing with someone from Canada about what happens to water outdoors when it's exploding from the ground everywhere and it's -25 out. A hockey fan no less! LOL. This conversation is beneath me at this point and I am out.
" The time it takes to fix a break varies due to several factors including the size of the break, digging in frozen ground, how quickly the break can be located, and the current weather conditions."
"How does temperature impact water mains?
The longer the temperature stays below freezing, the deeper the frost goes, putting pressure on water main and service pipes. Winter frost depths in Calgary typically range from two to three metres. Frozen ground increases the amount of time required to access the water pipes, resulting in a longer time frame to restore water. Pipes are buried around three to four metres deep."
So they are going to dig up the frozen ground which will take a little longer. Then they will pump out all the water. If they keep the velocity up it won’t freeze before it leaves the hose. Then you hoard in the dug out area, heat it with heaters and do the same repair you would normally. You probably are leaving the hoarding in place all winter because you do t want the line to freeze with non compacted soil over top. It took them 36hrs to drain and dig out the line. So that takes 3 times as long as in summer so an extra 3 days.
What’s your concern again?
I think you also miss that this line carries 60% of our water but we also are able to produce 500 million litres right now so total capacity is 1.25 billion litres. Given that we typically use about 600 million litres right now and peak in the heat dome a few years ago we used 800 million it looks like we have significant enough redundancy to whether a large water main break with the worst case damage being minor inconvenience.
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So they are going to dig up the frozen ground which will take a little longer. Then they will pump out all the water. If they keep the velocity up it won’t freeze before it leaves the hose. Then you hoard in the dug out area, heat it with heaters and do the same repair you would normally. You probably are leaving the hoarding in place all winter because you do t want the line to freeze with non compacted soil over top. It took them 36hrs to drain and dig out the line. So that takes 3 times as long as in summer so an extra 3 days.
What’s your concern again?
I think you also miss that this line carries 60% of our water but we also are able to produce 500 million litres right now so total capacity is 1.25 billion litres. Given that we typically use about 600 million litres right now and peak in the heat dome a few years ago we used 800 million it looks like we have significant enough redundancy to whether a large water main break with the worst case damage being minor inconvenience.
Are we sure this pipe actually does 60%? Or Is Bearspaw 60% and Glenmore 40%. Based on the simple map it would seem this pipe probably does a little less than 50% out of Bearspaw, so ~30% of total
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Curves, what is your actual point/question? I'm really unsure what argument you're even trying to make here.
Every curves post is just a mixture of made up anecdotes and nonsensical wandering. Expecting an actual point or coherent argument is basically like expecting God to grant you a miracle. You’ll probably get some random, vague mention of “Europe” though. Always Europe. Rarely anywhere specific in Europe. Just somewhere on that continent is where he’s referring to.
When you see “I have zero knowledge or experience with this” and 30 paragraphs of opinions about what was done wrong and how to do it better, congratulations, you found a new curves post.
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Are we sure this pipe actually does 60%? Or Is Bearspaw 60% and Glenmore 40%. Based on the simple map it would seem this pipe probably does a little less than 50% out of Bearspaw, so ~30% of total
I went back to see where that number came from. It isn’t in any of the city news releases which would be checked by people. It’s also not a quote it’s just in the CBC article. It also doesn’t say 60% by volume either so I could be misinterpreting it too.
But it will still take days to fix the 50-year-old piece of infrastructure that supplies approximately 60 per cent of the city — and the risk of running out of water remains a real threat, according to Calgary Mayor Jyoti Gondek”
Are we sure this pipe actually does 60%? Or Is Bearspaw 60% and Glenmore 40%. Based on the simple map it would seem this pipe probably does a little less than 50% out of Bearspaw, so ~30% of total
A briefing from June 8 provides details, generally Bearspaw produces 450-500 mega L/day but it's down to around 130 mega L/day because that's all the capacity needed (or transmission capacity available) to support the feeders and system still connected to it. If you live in the Northwest or North Central Calgary, you're still connected to Bearspaw and aren't vulnerable to water outages. But if you live in the Northeast, you're probably the worst off since you're far from Glenmore and have little transmission capacity with the NC Spy Hill zone that's still connected to Bearspaw.
Last edited by accord1999; 06-13-2024 at 09:33 PM.
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Every curves post is just a mixture of made up anecdotes and nonsensical wandering. Expecting an actual point or coherent argument is basically like expecting God to grant you a miracle. You’ll probably get some random, vague mention of “Europe” though. Always Europe. Rarely anywhere specific in Europe. Just somewhere on that continent is where he’s referring to.
When you see “I have zero knowledge or experience with this” and 30 paragraphs of opinions about what was done wrong and how to do it better, congratulations, you found a new curves post.
But Europe has it all figured out - you simply build your own reservoir for your house and voila!
Every curves post is just a mixture of made up anecdotes and nonsensical wandering. Expecting an actual point or coherent argument is basically like expecting God to grant you a miracle. You’ll probably get some random, vague mention of “Europe” though. Always Europe. Rarely anywhere specific in Europe. Just somewhere on that continent is where he’s referring to.
When you see “I have zero knowledge or experience with this” and 30 paragraphs of opinions about what was done wrong and how to do it better, congratulations, you found a new curves post.
Ah I was trying to not make it personal.
Last edited by btimbit; 06-13-2024 at 09:40 PM.
Reason: eh nevermind, not gonna go there
A briefing from June 8 provides details, generally Bearspaw produces 450-500 mega L/day but it's down to around 130 mega L/day because that's all the capacity needed (or available) to support the feeders and system still connected to it. If you live in the Northwest or North Central Calgary, you're still connected to Bearspaw and aren't vulnerable to water outages. But if you live in the Northeast, you're probably the worst off since you're far from Glenmore and have little transmission capacity with the NC Spyhill zone that's still connected to Bearspaw.
That makes sense. I've just been going off this map which shows the only other giant pipe of this size running due west from Bearspaw...which I figured might supply Cochrane and surrounding counties, but apparently Cochrane has their own water treatment plant, so I dunno.
Spoiler!
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That makes sense. I've just been going off this map which shows the only other giant pipe of this size running due west from Bearspaw...
That goes to the Bearspaw Reservoir so that should be the pipe providing the input water to the treatment plant. In your map, there's blue-red (purples) lines that go out of Bearspaw towards the east that are smaller but still substantial 1350mm-1500mm pipes. These should be the feeder mains for Northwest and North Central Calgary. You can see these zones in this water pressure map (in green and yellow) that can trace a path directly back to Bearspaw.
Spoiler!
Quote:
Originally Posted by GGG
That’s helpful. He used 40% of capacity runs through this main. This suggests the system is even more redundant
Yeah, Bearspaw still able to supply 20-25% of the city through other mains. And I think it'll be higher in the future as there's a major new project about to start, called the North Water Servicing Project that'll create a new line going north towards 144 Av then go east to 14 St and could offer a second path for substantial amounts of water to the Northeast in an emergency.
I looked at that pipeline map and thought 2 things.
1) would be good to connect the NW to the NE north of Nose Hill Park somewhere
2) as someone who lives in the isolated NW areas of the system there is actually no need for me to be conserving water. I get why they don't say that in the briefings, but still interesting to see the system layout.
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I looked at that pipeline map and thought 2 things.
1) would be good to connect the NW to the NE north of Nose Hill Park somewhere
2) as someone who lives in the isolated NW areas of the system there is actually no need for me to be conserving water. I get why they don't say that in the briefings, but still interesting to see the system layout.
Curves, what is your actual point/question? I'm really unsure what argument you're even trying to make here. What if this happened in winter and took longer to repair? Then it would take longer to repair, but we use way less water in the winter, so whatever. We clearly already have redundancies in the system since even now all we had to do was limit usage slightly and everything is fine. There are water main breaks every winter, the sky hasn't fallen yet
Like, what's even there to discuss here? You asked what would happen if there was a "Major explosion, a terror attack, a plane crash, another major watermain break etc." Believe it or not, CEMA has plans for all that too.
The water main break is going to cause a major explosion, terror attack and plane crash all at the same time, isn't it obvious??? The terrorists see that we are weak right now!
