Supposely the third episode is going to be a real doozy.
Not that I'm going to watch it. Stopped watching NuStar Wars after episode 9. And pretty much all mass media.
ok
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Originally Posted by Locke
Thats why Flames fans make ideal Star Trek fans. We've really been taught to embrace the self-loathing and extreme criticism.
Lol. I'm actually kind of enjoying this show. The only gripe I have is the non-Star Wars feel at parts. It feels kind of like ninja wars in dystopia at points.
I really went in with low expectations expecting to be worse than Ahsoka. A lot of the criticism seems to be coming from the anti-woke crowd. I do agree that Disney is awkwardly forcing certain things, but don't get that vibe from this show at all. If I could praise one thing it'd be the characters and acting. Lee Jung-Jae and Stenberg are both killing it so far.
Although I guess you could say its somewhat racist of Disney to have an Asian lead and then throw in so much ninja content.
Lol. I'm actually kind of enjoying this show. The only gripe I have is the non-Star Wars feel at parts. It feels kind of like ninja wars in dystopia at points.
I really went in with low expectations expecting to be worse than Ahsoka. A lot of the criticism seems to be coming from the anti-woke crowd. I do agree that Disney is awkwardly forcing certain things, but don't get that vibe from this show at all. If I could praise one thing it'd be the characters and acting. Lee Jung-Jae and Stenberg are both killing it so far.
Although I guess you could say its somewhat racist of Disney to have an Asian lead and then throw in so much ninja content.
Yeah, I agree with the sentiment that if your criticizing a show for outside of Star Wars reasons, your a bit of an ahole.
With Ahsoka I went in with really high hopes, and it had the bones of an interesting story linking the Mortis gods and death troopers and Thrawn for example. But it didn't work.
Making Sabine Force sensitive was just a stupid writing decision, I don't know why they did it, and tried to make her a Jedi. What made Sabine cool was that she wasn't afraid to stand toe to toe with a Jedi as a Mandalorian.
and maybe the animated nature of Clone Wars and Rebels wrecked me but AE was such a good voice for Ahsoka, and she bought this high energy feel to the character. And the animation of her fighting against Maul and Vader was awesome.
Rosario Dawson just didn't feel like her, and she didn't move like her, and she didn't feel athletic like her. And they had her almost as a solemn character. The only time where she really came alive, was when she met up with Anakin again to finish her training.
I mean the story bones were good, but the way they fleshed it out was poorly done.
The cast was really good, I don't know how they're going to replace RS.
I don't care anymore about things that people complain about with the whole "Woke" thing. I don't. I care about the story, I care about the lore, and I care about the characters.
I mean so far with Acolyte, they clearly casted well. The acting is good, the set pieces and music are great. There's just some weirdness in the character building, and the problem isn't dialogue, its lazy story telling.
But its epsiode 2, hopefully they don't try to smuggle a kid past the Sith Lord under a jacket.
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Yeah, I agree with the sentiment that if your criticizing a show for outside of Star Wars reasons, your a bit of an ahole.
With Ahsoka I went in with really high hopes, and it had the bones of an interesting story linking the Mortis gods and death troopers and Thrawn for example. But it didn't work.
Making Sabine Force sensitive was just a stupid writing decision, I don't know why they did it, and tried to make her a Jedi. What made Sabine cool was that she wasn't afraid to stand toe to toe with a Jedi as a Mandalorian.
and maybe the animated nature of Clone Wars and Rebels wrecked me but AE was such a good voice for Ahsoka, and she bought this high energy feel to the character. And the animation of her fighting against Maul and Vader was awesome.
Rosario Dawson just didn't feel like her, and she didn't move like her, and she didn't feel athletic like her. And they had her almost as a solemn character. The only time where she really came alive, was when she met up with Anakin again to finish her training.
I mean the story bones were good, but the way they fleshed it out was poorly done.
The cast was really good, I don't know how they're going to replace RS.
I don't care anymore about things that people complain about with the whole "Woke" thing. I don't. I care about the story, I care about the lore, and I care about the characters.
I mean so far with Acolyte, they clearly casted well. The acting is good, the set pieces and music are great. There's just some weirdness in the character building, and the problem isn't dialogue, its lazy story telling.
But its epsiode 2, hopefully they don't try to smuggle a kid past the Sith Lord under a jacket.
I didn't watch any of the cartoons or read any of the novels/comics, so I think Ashsoka fell especially flat for me. They really lost me when they started including things like zombies. Rosario Dawson was very flat to the point of being unlikable. There were too many decisions and plot points that made zero sense or were clearly low stakes.....
Spoiler!
Ahsoka is stuck in another galaxy....I wonder if she'll ever get back...oh no.
This show seems solid to me so far. I agree the plot is a little weak, but we really haven't got to the meat and bones of it.
The Acolyte pretty much gave away the plot after two episodes.
Spoiler!
It seems 4 jedi masters did something bad to these twins. Bad enough they concealed the existence of one of the twins from the official record. Bad enough that one jedi master was willing to commit suicide for atonement.
Guessing one of the shows aims is break the veneer that the Jedi Order is fully good and without corruption.
We also see the green female jedi, seems to be more worried about optics and far more political than most jedi we have seen before.
You can really see it on social media. Its actually kind of sad, not that there weren't flaws in the story, but somehow Star Wars, which is pace fantasy has become a political statement for some and in the wrong way.
I remember in school, we were reading some Shakespeare play I forget which one, and this was in Grade 12, and I was to be honest really badly hung over. And the teacher tried to break down the book into social commentary based around human society. It was complete nonesense to me, and just a huge reach, and I remember I said something under my breath like "For f$$$$$k sakes, sometimes a book doesn't have deeper meaning, its entertainment, can we move on". And honestly it was probably because I felt at that particular moment like my late night destruction of a case of beer was about to come up in my lap. But if people are looking for deeper meanings in Star Wars around modern day societal statements, they're working too damn hard.
Its star wars, laser swords and impractical space ####s and an 8 foot tall dude in an ape suit.
Art is always trying to say something - what makes it great art is that you can’t tell at a glance what it is.
The biggest problem I have with modern storytelling that it IS so obviously political, and so obviously pandering. And the finished product sucks because of it.
The prequels in particular are almost entirely apolitical, if you believe in a functional democracy - it is about how a society, not just a democracy, can be twisted and corrupted until one awful individual has complete control over everyone’s lives.
The original trilogy is about what you do in a world where one awful individual has control over everyone’s lives.
Halfway through episode 3. Definitely not liking this episode so far. Also, very bothered by the fact the child actors are not actually twins and don't look that much alike, when it's a key plot point, that they keep emphasizing, how much the twins look alike as adults.
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"The Jedi are bad" "The Jedi are good"
"What did you do?" "What did you do?"
And I don't care that its a band of lesbian Dathamir witch covens, But that chant during the ceremony ceremony actually had me laughing.
and now anyone can basically manipulate midichlorians to create life, it kind of cheapens the will of the Force when the witches can just manipulate life.
And it was clumsy as hell, its pretty clear that the fire didn't kill everyone, because of the corpses in the meeting area, so either the Jedi killed them all, and that's why Mae is mad, or the Sith killed them all, or one of them betrayed them, or evil sister's fire making skills are awesome, or they're not very good with the force or the thread or whatever.
And what the hell kind of logic is this, "I'm leaving", "I'll kiiiiiiilllll you".
What's with the set building in this show, its one complaint of mine, that everything looks tiny and constricted, and there's no room to breath.
I think this episode was frankly just dumb.
But I did like that they framed the Jedi's fall in a hundred years of starting here. They believe that only they can train force users, and therefore they're on the road recruiting what is basically child soldiers. Their sheer arrogance that they are right, and everyone is wrong about the force is a key element on why the sith were able to topple them.
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Art is always trying to say something - what makes it great art is that you can’t tell at a glance what it is.
The biggest problem I have with modern storytelling that it IS so obviously political, and so obviously pandering. And the finished product sucks because of it.
The prequels in particular are almost entirely apolitical, if you believe in a functional democracy - it is about how a society, not just a democracy, can be twisted and corrupted until one awful individual has complete control over everyone’s lives.
The original trilogy is about what you do in a world where one awful individual has control over everyone’s lives.
The Disney trilogy isn’t about anything.
I think that the dude who wrote game of thrones said it best. That there's a new generation of screenwriters and directors who search out the opportunity to work on these legacy stories like Star Wars and others, and they want to put their stamp on it, and surpass the creators.
Star Wars that's especially true, with the ST, and even with the TV shows.
I want to add, for this coven of intensly powerful force users to die in a "fire" is just a bizarre choice.
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I don't really know why, but Disney's lightsaber lore really bothers me. Lightsabers are Green and Blue and Red. I don't like that there's lightsabers of yellow and orange. It just seems wrong to me.
Obviously Mace Windu had a purple blade (requested by SLJ and granted by Lucas) and in the old EU the explanation was that his force and lightsaber style embraced some darker elements and so his lightsaber reflected this. He invented his own combat style (Vapaad) which could bring the user close to the dark side.
Disney just seems not to care about lore. They just throw stuff throw s**t at the wall with no apparent plan. Star Wars was great because it had established lore and the universe for the most part followed rules. When people were impaled by a lightsaber, they died. Disney just seems like it doesn't want Star Wars to have lore or stakes and it's just not as entertaining when you know that the new stuff will contradict already long established concepts (RIP Qui-Gon Jinn).
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"The Jedi are bad" "The Jedi are good"
"What did you do?" "What did you do?"
And I don't care that its a band of lesbian Dathamir witch covens, But that chant during the ceremony ceremony actually had me laughing.
and now anyone can basically manipulate midichlorians to create life, it kind of cheapens the will of the Force when the witches can just manipulate life.
And it was clumsy as hell, its pretty clear that the fire didn't kill everyone, because of the corpses in the meeting area, so either the Jedi killed them all, and that's why Mae is mad, or the Sith killed them all, or one of them betrayed them, or evil sister's fire making skills are awesome, or they're not very good with the force or the thread or whatever.
And what the hell kind of logic is this, "I'm leaving", "I'll kiiiiiiilllll you".
What's with the set building in this show, its one complaint of mine, that everything looks tiny and constricted, and there's no room to breath.
I think this episode was frankly just dumb.
But I did like that they framed the Jedi's fall in a hundred years of starting here. They believe that only they can train force users, and therefore they're on the road recruiting what is basically child soldiers. Their sheer arrogance that they are right, and everyone is wrong about the force is a key element on why the sith were able to topple them.
I had a feeling we this series was poorly written when in episode 1
Spoiler!
they sent a jedi knight and padawan to apprehend a suspected murder of a jedi master but then decided to send her back to Courscant via a prison transport manned only by droids
I had a feeling we this series was poorly written when in episode 1
Spoiler!
they sent a jedi knight and padawan to apprehend a suspected murder of a jedi master but then decided to send her back to Courscant via a prison transport manned only by droids
but yeah episode 3 was very dumb.
That's actually a good point:
Spoiler!
The murdered Jedi was also a very experienced and respected Jedi, if you can kill her in hand to hand combat, you'd be considered a huge threat. Sending a team that small would make no sense. You wouldn't send a single cop and his rookie apprentice to take down a dangerous and armed cop killer, you'd send the whole SWAT team.
She was also observed doing all sorts of forcey things. What would stop her from crushing those droids.
I don't really know why, but Disney's lightsaber lore really bothers me. Lightsabers are Green and Blue and Red. I don't like that there's lightsabers of yellow and orange. It just seems wrong to me.
Obviously Mace Windu had a purple blade (requested by SLJ and granted by Lucas) and in the old EU the explanation was that his force and lightsaber style embraced some darker elements and so his lightsaber reflected this. He invented his own combat style (Vapaad) which could bring the user close to the dark side.
Disney just seems not to care about lore. They just throw stuff throw s**t at the wall with no apparent plan. Star Wars was great because it had established lore and the universe for the most part followed rules. When people were impaled by a lightsaber, they died. Disney just seems like it doesn't want Star Wars to have lore or stakes and it's just not as entertaining when you know that the new stuff will contradict already long established concepts (RIP Qui-Gon Jinn).
Yellow blades became a thing in Rebels, as they represent the Temple Guardians. Mace's was a vanity color, but for the Jedi, it was blue and green. Then there's the Dark Sabre, which was extremely rare.
Its funny I still play SWTOR and Jedi and Sith are running around with about a billion colors.
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The murdered Jedi was also a very experienced and respected Jedi, if you can kill her in hand to hand combat, you'd be considered a huge threat. Sending a team that small would make no sense. You wouldn't send a single cop and his rookie apprentice to take down a dangerous and armed cop killer, you'd send the whole SWAT team.
She was also observed doing all sorts of forcey things. What would stop her from crushing those droids.
Spoiler!
I literally did a spit take as you guys bought those points up.
Yeah if you can get within tiny knife stabbing distance of a Jedi Master, they're not sending a inexperienced Jedi and his rookie Padawan after the killer. In Clone Wars when they went after Ahsoka, they literally sent a powerful knight in Anakin Skywalker and the entire 501st Legion.
With Barris, they had her surrounded by about 10 Temple Guards, who are considered to be the best fighters in the order.
And why didn't she just start crushing droid heads on the prison ship, or take control of the ship, I mean she was a mechanic and everyone in Star Wars seems to own or know how to fly a starship or fighter.
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I think that the dude who wrote game of thrones said it best. That there's a new generation of screenwriters and directors who search out the opportunity to work on these legacy stories like Star Wars and others, and they want to put their stamp on it, and surpass the creators.
Star Wars that's especially true, with the ST, and even with the TV shows.
Movies are now made by people who have contempt for their source material.
Lord of the Rings was made by people who love Lord of the Rings - Rings of Power was made by people who love money.
You see it with the live action Disney movies. They’re trying to “correct” the cartoons. It’s gross.
But you also hit on the fundamental problem - the people who are writing these shows aren’t great writers and they don’t have great stories to tell.
And nobody on the studio side gives a #### about the stories, so nobody’s there to say “stop letting people survive lightsaber wounds.”
So it all ends up feeling hollow and wrong.
(Post script - the larger overall problem in the Star Wars universe is that there is nothing generally worth defending. There is no Shire. There is no place removed from the action for the hero to return to. Everyone is an orphan from a terrible place, and fighting is the only way for them to escape their boring/hellish existence)
Halfway through episode 3. Definitely not liking this episode so far. Also, very bothered by the fact the child actors are not actually twins and don't look that much alike, when it's a key plot point, that they keep emphasizing, how much the twins look alike as adults.
They are twins. Obviously not identical twins, but twins nonetheless.
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They are twins. Obviously not identical twins, but twins nonetheless.
They are supposed to be identical. That's kind of the plot of the first two episodes. Her identical twin is committing crimes, so everyone thinks it's her. They have the same actress playing both as adults, but two separate actresses, who don't actually look that much alike, playing the twins as children.
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But you also hit on the fundamental problem - the people who are writing these shows aren’t great writers and they don’t have great stories to tell.
I liked George RR Martin's take on it recently. They have no stories of their own, so they are taking old, good stories and trying (and failing) to "make it their own".
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