The Legend of Sam Bennett

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

If you want an incompetent GM, neither of those guys can hold a candle to Button, and he was not nearly as bad as Risebrough.

As I just said in another thread, the chronic problem with the Calgary Flames is that they are owned by people who have no idea how to hire good hockey managers.

Are they really that much worst though? I never paid attention to the front office aspect of the club until the Kipper trade. But with the Canadian dollar situation, I figured it made a GM's job pretty challenging around here in Buttons case. Though there were some fairly stupid moves in hindsight that screwed the Flames potential for sure.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Joborule

Are they really that much worst though? I never paid attention to the front office aspect of the club until the Kipper trade. But with the Canadian dollar situation, I figured it made a GM's job pretty challenging around here in Buttons case. Though there were some fairly stupid moves in hindsight that screwed the Flames potential for sure.

Button was the first and last GM hired from outside by senior management in the Hotchkiss era, and he simply wasn't up to the job. I can forgive him for letting Martin St. Louis walk: nobody else saw much in him at the time. But in his first months, he made a series of obvious blunders:

• He traded J.-S. Giguere, then a prime goalie prospect ready to graduate, for a second-round pick so he could protect Fred Brathwaite in the expansion draft. Brathwaite was a fan favourite, but he was a 28-year-old career backup who only became a starter in Calgary because the Flames had nobody else ready to play. A year later, Button traded him anyway, and Brathwaite went right back to being a backup.

To make matters worse, Button turned around and traded that 2nd for Miika Elomo and a 4th used to draft Levente Szuper – both of whom returned to Europe without playing a single NHL game for the Flames.

• He picked up Igor Kravchuk off waivers from Ottawa. ‘Crapshoot’, as Flames fans liked to call him, was a one-dimensional offensive defenceman who wasn't even very good at that, but he was paid like a borderline star. At a time when the team had a player payroll of $26.5 million, Kravchuk was making 2.5.

Because this waste of a contract was leeching the lifeblood out of the budget, Button tried to give Kravchuk away on waivers the following summer. No one was stupid enough to take him. So he had to get his $2.5 million back by waiving Phil Housley instead and losing him to Chicago.

• Perhaps worst of all, he hired Don Hay as coach to save a few bucks. Hay was and is a perfectly fine junior coach, but he was in over his head in the NHL and had to be fired before the season ended.

I'm quite certain the team would have done better with an NHL-quality coach and a bargain-bin defenceman than it did with a bargain-bin coach and Igor Kravchuk.

All these bonehead decisions were made before the Flames played a single regular-season game with Button as GM.

Harley Hotchkiss was a terrific guy, God rest his soul, but he and the team's co-owners just could not hire a hockey GM to save their lives. They inherited Fletcher. When Fletcher left, they gave the job to Doug Risebrough because Risebrough was already on the payroll. When Risebrough had to be sacked for incompetence, they gave the job to Al Coates – because Coates was already on the payroll. When Button was sacked, he was succeeded by Darryl Sutter – who was already on the payroll. The only GM they ever hired from outside was Button, and that hire was a complete botch.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Harley Hotchkiss was a terrific guy, God rest his soul, but he and the team's co-owners just could not hire a hockey GM to save their lives. They inherited Fletcher. When Fletcher left, they gave the job to Doug Risebrough because Risebrough was already on the payroll. When Risebrough had to be sacked for incompetence, they gave the job to Al Coates – because Coates was already on the payroll. When Button was sacked, he was succeeded by Darryl Sutter – who was already on the payroll. The only GM they ever hired from outside was Button, and that hire was a complete botch.

That says a lot right there. Already on payroll. They were concerned about what they were spending. Al Coates really wasn't terrible. He was handcuffed by tight budget. At least he brought in players who worked hard and hired Brian Sutter who get get a lot out of the players Coates brought in. He didn't push the team forward too much, partly due to money restrictions, but he didn't make moves that he though would be good for the team but turned out to be disasterous... Button did that.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Buff

Al Coates really wasn't terrible. He was handcuffed by tight budget. At least he brought in players who worked hard and hired Brian Sutter who get get a lot out of the players Coates brought in. He didn't push the team forward too much, partly due to money restrictions, but he didn't make moves that he though would be good for the team but turned out to be disasterous...

It's worth noting that Al Coates first went to work for Cliff Fletcher when the team was still in Atlanta. So the Flames' owners promoted him, but they didn't actually hire him in the first place.

It's really hard to judge Coates as a GM, because he was working with an impossible situation. He had to deal with the wreckage after the '89 team was dismantled, at a time when small-market teams were basically farm clubs for the big-money teams. The only star player he managed to acquire and keep was Iginla, and the ghouls in local media (you know who you are, Bruce Dowbiggin) were licking their chops and wondering which team Iginla would bolt to.

Not too long after Coates left, Ken King told me frankly that from a pure business standpoint, the best thing for the owners in that situation would have been to fold the franchise. That's why Harley Hotchkiss fought so hard to bring in the salary cap.

[EVERLAST]

Harley Hotchkiss understood allot more than most of the BOG at the time too.

Gary Bettman knew this too . Somewhere Hotchkiss not having some kind of LEAGUE
Award named after him is a crime . As a manager, leader, owner , philanthropist he did far far more for thr league than just in Calgary.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Hackey

It's bitter sweet watching Tkachuk and Bennett but realistically the Flames wouldn't have the supporting cast to be replicating the Panthers anyways so it doesn't really matter. We'd probably be blaming them for the mediocre results.

The Panthers picked up a lot of their supporting players via cast offs from others. That's what separates the championship teams from the rest. The Flames were busy throwing money at the James Neals instead of acquiring/signing players like Reinhart, Marchment, Bennett, etc...

The Flames had a solid core, but couldn't put the rest together consistently. Stiffling the development of their own depth didn't help either. Unless you were 6'4'' you basically didn't get a fair shot with the Flames, now they have a log jam of underdeveloped yet skilled depth guys.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by blankall

The Panthers picked up a lot of their supporting players via cast offs from others. That's what separates the championship teams from the rest. The Flames were busy throwing money at the James Neals instead of acquiring/signing players like Reinhart, Marchment, Bennett, etc...

The Flames had a solid core, but couldn't put the rest together consistently. Stiffling the development of their own depth didn't help either. Unless you were 6'4'' you basically didn't get a fair shot with the Flames, now they have a log jam of underdeveloped yet skilled depth guys.

It’s kind of funny. When Vegas came in the league, they rallied around being castoffs, and embraced the place that gave them a fresh opportunity

Plus a marquee player who simply decides he wants to be there

Florida has some of those elements

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by blankall

The Panthers picked up a lot of their supporting players via cast offs from others. That's what separates the championship teams from the rest. The Flames were busy throwing money at the James Neals instead of acquiring/signing players like Reinhart, Marchment, Bennett, etc...

The Flames had a solid core, but couldn't put the rest together consistently. Stiffling the development of their own depth didn't help either. Unless you were 6'4'' you basically didn't get a fair shot with the Flames, now they have a log jam of underdeveloped yet skilled depth guys.

I really wanted the Flames to trade Backlund+ (maybe Bennett) for ROR and Reinhart. I think it could have been done.

[AustinL_NHL]

Hot damn what an assist

Most underrated low-key [playoff] star in the NHL

[Flamesfan05]

Not surprise a team with Bennett can do some damage in the playoffs

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by AustinL_NHL

Hot damn what an assist

Most underrated low-key [playoff] star in the NHL

He will run guys over even if he isn't scoring. That type doesn't exist anymore.

[EVERLAST]

3 games away from legendary status.

Meanwhile Budweiser can make a new commercial for real men of genius starring Ron MacLean and all his Oiler loving kool-aid drinking delusionizational dummies

[Strange Brew]

You win Stanley Cups with players like this. Great game for Bennett.

[Manhattanboy]

Cover of GQ coming up.

[The Yen Man]

If trading Bennett to Florida is the reason Oilers don't win the cup, I'm ok with that.

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

If trading Bennett to Florida is the reason Oilers don't win the cup, I'm ok with that.

Trading Bennett and Tkachuk to Florida for scraps is the reason it's Florida and not Calgary playing for the cup.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

Trading Bennett and Tkachuk to Florida for scraps is the reason it's Florida and not Calgary playing for the cup.

The Flames were in no danger of reaching the finals even when they had Bennett and Tkachuk.

I know it's your schtick to belittle the Flames at every opportunity and criticize every move they make, but lordy! There's enough real material to work with, you don't have to make up crap.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

Trading Bennett and Tkachuk to Florida for scraps is the reason it's Florida and not Calgary playing for the cup.

Nah. Even if we had kept them, we weren’t destined for that.

No Barkov/MacKinnon/McDavid/Eichel/Stamkos.

No Ekblad/Makar/Pietrangelo/Hedman.

There’s just no overcoming that. As much as I loved parts of the roster during the Treliving era, the team just couldn’t overcome the lack of foundational players in key positions.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Nah. Even if we had kept them, we weren’t destined for that.

No Barkov/MacKinnon/McDavid/Eichel/Stamkos.

No Ekblad/Makar/Pietrangelo/Hedman.

There’s just no overcoming that. As much as I loved parts of the roster during the Treliving era, the team just couldn’t overcome the lack of foundational players in key positions.

They would have been closer than 1 or 2 playoff round wins?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

They would have been closer than 1 or 2 playoff round wins?

How many did they win when they had both those players?