BC Lags Behind Other Provinces in Life Satisfaction

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

First off, what do States have to do with this, second...



https://www.canada.ca/en/department-...tax-rates.html

But if you do want to compare to other jurisdictions...




You are misinformed.

1. The US matters, because that's where high income people from Canada are likely to move to when the tax burden climbs too high (I know first hand what you pay in comparison because I moved myself)

2.Ummm . . . your charts only deal with one element of taxation (estimated business investment) and they are based on a highly massaged methodology that cannot be fully vetted solely by the link you shared. Your source is also completely irrelevant to discuss the overall aggregate tax burden on the population of Canada because it's not focused on the overall tax burden and also ignores government levels of spending.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by Locke

Because as a University Professor once told me: "The best money in the World....is other people's!"

Larry Wood made an impression on many young business students!

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

1. The US matters, because that's where high income people from Canada are likely to move to when the tax burden climbs too high (I know first hand what you pay in comparison because I moved myself)

2.Ummm . . . your charts only deal with one element of taxation (estimated business investment) and they are based on a highly massaged methodology that cannot be fully vetted solely by the link you shared. Your source is also completely irrelevant to discuss the overall aggregate tax burden on the population of Canada because it's not focused on the overall tax burden and also ignores government levels of spending.

OK, 1, well thanks again America. Making the world ####tier ever day.


2. It shows taxation for business has dropped drastically. This is relevant because, since you seem concerned with deficits, is a contributor to them. I notice you didn't provide any counter evidence, but personal tax rates have also dropped(including the GST).


Here's another good article:

There has been two fundamental shifts in who pays taxes in Canada since the late 1990s:

• A shift of the tax bill from business to families (through large reductions of corporate income taxes and a proliferation of business subsidies and tax credits)
• A shift of the tax bill from higher income to middle and modest income families (through personal income tax cuts at the high end and an increased reliance on regressive taxes)

The tax cuts introduced since 2000, visible in both the Fraser Institute and the OECD data, have disproportionately benefited Canada’s richest families.

https://www.policynote.ca/how-have-t...-half-century/

[TheIronMaiden]

Call me crazy, but I don't think there is an Opiate pandemic because corporate taxes are too low.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Call me crazy, but I don't think there is an Opiate pandemic because corporate taxes are too low.

Everyone knows that there is an Opioid epidemic because Mars is in Retrograde and the tides of the North Sea have shifted. Nostradamus told us this was going to happen ages ago.

[blankall]

Biggest factors, IMO:

1. Lots of cheap, easily accessible, and very toxic drugs.
2. Housing crisis and cost of living.

Support is clearly important, but that's also a way to manage the problem and doesn't really touch at what is putting more and more people on drugs in the first place. Inflation, increased basic living prices, housing shortages, etc... all force more people onto the streets. When they get there a cheap supply of deadly drugs is waiting for them.

As an anecdotal example, in undergrad I worked for a company doing landscaping at a townhouse complex in Queensland. Many of the occupants were on disability and lived below the poverty line. Now those same townhouses sell for $400+K each, despite the fact they're over 20 years older. The kind of occupants of those townhouses would today have no real options.

We complain about middle class families being forced into smaller and less desirable places. There were people forced out of those less desirable places. People at the bottom only have so far to fall.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

What austerity? Every province in Canada and the Canadian federal government is spending massive deficits and has racked up massive amounts of debt. We're already taxing the rich on income at levels well over half on the marginal dollar in pretty much every jurisdiction and lopping on sales taxes that in the 10-15%+ range and there's still huge health care needs being unmet. There actually isn't a huge untapped money pot to throw cash at every issue.

BC specifically is spending a record deficit in 2024-2025 of nearly $8 billion

Oh, well, if the government had a deficit for the last couple of years, that totally makes up for 16 years of cuts under the Campbell and Clark governments.

The BC NDP also posted three straight years of balanced budgets before COVID hit.

What a deeply unserious post.

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

I think that at some point, blaming society and polices hits a limitation.
There is still personal accountability. Though everyone gets delt circumstances ( good and bad) that are out of their control, sometimes people #### up their own lives, or do not make the best of their situation. In life, it is good to get help, but you have to be your own first responder.

Spoken like someone who has been fortunate enough to not suffer from serious mental health issues and/or homelessness and lacks the empathy to comprehend how debilitating those things can be.

How exactly do you expect people to seek help when mental health and substance use treatment services have been slashed to the bone?

They just need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, amirite?

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Call me crazy, but I don't think there is an Opiate pandemic because corporate taxes are too low.

This is such a massive strawman. No one is saying the opioid crisis is because corporate taxes are too low. We're saying that the services required to pull people out of homelessness and addictions are too sparse after years of cuts.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by blankall

We complain about middle class families being forced into smaller and less desirable places. There were people forced out of those less desirable places. People at the bottom only have so far to fall.

I know the housing crisis is starting to affect Alberta and Calgary now as well, but I don't think people who don't live here appreciate how bad the housing situation is here.

I had a tradesman come to fix something in my apartment a couple of months back. He has a stable job, with a solid income, and he's still living in his van because there are little to no vacancies, and the ones that exist are out of his price range.

[Fuzz]

Rube, it's their fault for not having a career with good benefits so they can afford to have mental health supports covered by their insurer. Private healthcare could have prevented this, if they just pulled up their boot straps and got a real job.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I know the housing crisis is starting to affect Alberta and Calgary now as well, but I don't think people who don't live here appreciate how bad the housing situation is here.

I had a tradesman come to fix something in my apartment a couple of months back. He has a stable job, with a solid income, and he's still living in his van because there are little to no vacancies, and the ones that exist are out of his price range.

We'll be at that point soon. I know a lot of people in their 30s who have had to move back in with their parents in the last few years. If you don't already own, you pretty much need a duel income to rent or buy

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Rube, it's their fault for not having a career with good benefits so they can afford to have mental health supports covered by their insurer. Private healthcare could have prevented this, if they just pulled up their boot straps and got a real job.

I have what would be considered very good benefits. I get a whopping $500 per year towards psychologist appointments. That's good for about two sessions.

And good luck trying to get in with a psychiatrist in this province to get an accurate mental health diagnosis without presenting yourself to the psych ward or telling your GP (if you have one) that you want to kill yourself.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

1. The US matters, because that's where high income people from Canada are likely to move to when the tax burden climbs too high (I know first hand what you pay in comparison because I moved myself)

Which is almost entirely due to the "massive deficits" you're complaining about. If you take total tax revenue (as a % of GDP) in the US and Canada and then add in their respective deficits, they're basically the same. And that's with Canadian healthcare being primarily government funded vs. private funding in the US.

Essentially, the US has just been borrowing 5-6% of their GDP every year for the last 20 years to keep tax rates artificially low. To run a balanced budget, they would need to increase tax revenue by 20-25%, which puts them right in line with Canada. I guess if you're OK borrowing from the next generations to save some tax now, go for it. But that doesn't seem like a good long-term policy.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by btimbit

We'll be at that point soon. I know a lot of people in their 30s who have had to move back in with their parents in the last few years. If you don't already own, you pretty much need a duel income to rent or buy

Yeah, the big problem in Alberta is the lack of rent control and protections for renters. In B.C., we have a big problem with landlords skirting eviction laws. Hopefully, the latest bill passed will deter some of that.

https://news.gov.bc.ca/releases/2024HOUS0017-000461

[blankall]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Yeah, the big problem in Alberta is the lack of rent control and protections for renters. In B.C., we have a big problem with landlords skirting eviction laws. Hopefully, the latest bill passed will deter some of that.

https://news.gov.bc.ca/releases/2024HOUS0017-000461

At the end of the day there simply isn't enough housing units for people. You can put in all the rent controls you want, but if you physically don't have the spaces to accommodate all of the people, some people will be forced onto the streets. Once you land there, if you didn't have mental health issues to begin with, you likely will shortly.

This problem is expected to get much worse, as housing construction is actually falling slightly, as current economic conditions don't encourage more construction. Combine that with record population growth and the numbers just don't add up.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by blankall

At the end of the day there simply isn't enough housing units for people. You can put in all the rent controls you want, but if you physically don't have the spaces to accommodate all of the people, some people will be forced onto the streets. Once you land there, if you didn't have mental health issues to begin with, you likely will shortly.

This problem is expected to get much worse, as housing construction is actually falling slightly, as current economic conditions don't encourage more construction. Combine that with record population growth and the numbers just don't add up.

I'm not saying it's panacea, but the less people getting evicted just because a landlord wants to jack up the rent, the better.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I'm not saying it's panacea, but the less people getting evicted just because a landlord wants to jack up the rent, the better.

I agree. Rent controls don't solve the simple math problem though of not enough actual housing units in Canada.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by blankall

I agree. Rent controls don't solve the simple math problem though of not enough actual housing units in Canada.

Yeah, well the big problem there is that province still has to go to war with the municipalities over zoning (looking directly at you, Oak Bay).

We're also still seeing way too many condos being built that are not affordable for the majority of British Columbians. Freeland touting those $1600/month, 330 square foot condos as making like more affordable for families was hideous.

[you&me]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Yeah, well the big problem there is that province still has to go to war with the municipalities over zoning (looking directly at you, Oak Bay).

We're also still seeing way too many condos being built that are not affordable for the majority of British Columbians. Freeland touting those $1600/month, 330 square foot condos as making like more affordable for families was hideous.

What's the threshold for affordability for a family? Or is it 330sf for a family the issue?

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Oh, well, if the government had a deficit for the last couple of years, that totally makes up for 16 years of cuts under the Campbell and Clark governments.

The BC NDP also posted three straight years of balanced budgets before COVID hit.

What a deeply unserious post.



Spoken like someone who has been fortunate enough to not suffer from serious mental health issues and/or homelessness and lacks the empathy to comprehend how debilitating those things can be.

How exactly do you expect people to seek help when mental health and substance use treatment services have been slashed to the bone?

They just need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, amirite?



This is such a massive strawman. No one is saying the opioid crisis is because corporate taxes are too low. We're saying that the services required to pull people out of homelessness and addictions are too sparse after years of cuts.

first of all, you don't know me or the people I love.

Second, I think that you're misrepresenting my position. I agree, homelessness and mental health are serious issues that are largely out of individuals control, further still, someone can work their entire life and never escape that.

That said, what is under peoples control is doing hard drugs. (**with obvious exceptions**) No one is holding people down and giving them fent and meth.(**with obvious exceptions**) Also, no one is naive enough to think that they can do those drugs and not give themselves a life sentence. Can we help these people? sure, but do we need to restructure the everyday life of people to accommodate them?

I simply don't subscribe to doomsday thinking. We provide upstream care through access to world class education, and down stream care through emergency services. Could these things be improved? of course, and for the most part people are working really hard to fix them (i've met dozens of people who do). It's not like we are leaving people totally flapping in the wind.

So what i said, is there is a limit to how much we can do for these people, where that limit is is not for me to decide, but it is important to consider that many opiate addicts can never be saved. it sucks, but that's just life, in other words unfair.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

That said, what is under peoples control is doing hard drugs. (**with obvious exceptions**) No one is holding people down and giving them fent and meth.(**with obvious exceptions**) Also, no one is naive enough to think that they can do those drugs and not give themselves a life sentence. Can we help these people?

What you're saying basically flies in the face of years of evidence-based research on the topic. It's also an incredibly ableist position.

People will make all sorts of poor, life-altering decisions for a variety of reasons beyond their control. When your brain is so poisoned by a mental illness, you may not have the mental capacity to adequately assess the risks related to substance use, etc., especially when you are seeking out relief from said mental illness and there are a lack of treatment and support services available.

There is a reason risk-taking behaviour and substance abuse are heavily linked to mental health issues. It's because the brain is impaired in a way that prevents people from making healthy/safe life choices.

So what i said, is there is a limit to how much we can do for these people, where that limit is is not for me to decide, but it is important to consider that many opiate addicts can never be saved. it sucks, but that's just life, in other words unfair.

Again, this position is not supported by research. We know from other jurisdictions that if you can provide stable housing and sufficient access to mental health services, that the success rates of people getting off harmful substances dramatically improves.