2023/2024 Trade Rumors and Speculation Thread

[Mindtravellee]

Originally Posted by jg13

So Conroy has the elder wand and can win any trade against other GMs.

Which GM is Harry Potter?

[jg13]

Conroy obviously. He has the 3 deathly hallows. Markstrom, Hanifin and Tanev.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

The tidbits that have been dropped here are actually a great help to the Flames and the NHL in general for drumming up interest in the game. I guarantee you that flames marketing guys check this site, and they owe a nice scotch to anyone keeping us peasants this interested.

I like to think of the negative Nellie's, as oiler fans.

Having insiders also dispels a lot of misconceptions. When the fans don't have the right information a lot of times they can come up with all sorts of ideas which can unfortunately lead to baseless rumors. I think the insiders really help to keep the fan base rather calm, informed and excited at the same time.

Hopefully the few that tend to go off the deep end or claim the sky is falling after losses, or not hearing what they want to hear, will realize that this is a mature fanbase, and that people do get tired of people acting out randomly like kids going off the deep end.

[MegaErtz]

Originally Posted by dino7c

If the Flames get a massive return for Markstom will you and some others finally admit it was a good UFA signing?

Any time a team needs to retain half the remaining salary on a contract, that's not a good free agent signing.

[Housley4Prez]

Originally Posted by MegaErtz

Any time a team needs to retain half the remaining salary on a contract, that's not a good free agent signing.

That's not how this works. Markstrom IS worth his $6M, but to retain salary (when we have the cap room to do so) is good asset management to bring back as much sweetener as a buyer can agree to give. Retention gets us more.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by MegaErtz

Offloading his contract in full means we’d have to throw picks into the deal. Nobody can fit his full salary under the cap anyway, so we have to retain money or take a bad contract back.

Some of the returns people in this thread seem to be expecting are ludicrous.

Nobody could fit Cale Makar’s contract in full under their cap either. I suppose that means he has negative value?

[MegaErtz]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Nobody could fit Cale Makar’s contract in full under their cap either. I suppose that means he has negative value?

The best way to look at it is this: if Markstrom was to become a free agent this summer, is there a team in the league that would give him six million dollars a season for two seasons?

[Poe969]

Unless the buyout is coming out of your pocket, it shouldn't matter to you. The Flames won't be a contender in the ne t couple years so it doesn't matter.

He was signed without giving up anything except someone else's money, if it can get the Flames a player like Mercer, that's a win.

Let me ask you, if the Flames could use cap space to buy a different teams top young player and draft pick, wouldn't you? They already have their goalie of the future, they have Vladar who is capable of starting games, and they'll likely get Vanecek in the trade. Trading markstrom actually solves a problem for the Flames, and they can get assets at the same time?

Signing Markstrom was a great move at the time, and trading him now is a great move.

[MegaErtz]

Originally Posted by Poe969

Unless the buyout is coming out of your pocket, it shouldn't matter to you. The Flames won't be a contender in the ne t couple years so it doesn't matter.

He was signed without giving up anything except someone else's money, if it can get the Flames a player like Mercer, that's a win.

Let me ask you, if the Flames could use cap space to buy a different teams top young player and draft pick, wouldn't you? They already have their goalie of the future, they have Vladar who is capable of starting games, and they'll likely get Vanecek in the trade. Trading markstrom actually solves a problem for the Flames, and they can get assets at the same time?

Signing Markstrom was a great move at the time, and trading him now is a great move.

Of course! Sadly, the Flames have shown almost no history of this type of cap management. It sounds like we had a deal worked out with New Jersey until Murray Edwards balked at the salary retention. What good is it to have these types of assets when you're not willing to do what it takes to put them in play?

[bluejays]

Hey Sec or Diss, any word if the deal is for both Markstrom and Hanifin, or just Markstrom? I guess the business side of things are the suckers about to buy their Mercer jersey tonight?

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by MegaErtz

The best way to look at it is this: if Markstrom was to become a free agent this summer, is there a team in the league that would give him six million dollars a season for two seasons?

Well the answer to that question is yes. But you put forward this weird hypothetical to dodge from your previous logic that if a team cannot fit a player under the cap (like with Makar) it means they have negative value.

[MegaErtz]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Well the answer to that question is yes. But you put forward this weird hypothetical to dodge from your previous logic that if a team cannot fit a player under the cap (like with Makar) it means they have negative value.

I'm sorry man, I have no idea how Cale Makar got brought into the conversation. I don't recall ever stating that if a player can't be fit under another's team cap, he automatically has negative trade value. That would give all the best players in the league, who are all on big money, negative trade value.

If Markstrom was so good, teams would be throwing picks and prospects at us, along with offsetting big money contracts to get him. Instead, we're going to have to eat 50% of his salary to get anything back. He was the worst starting goaltender in the league last year, and despite having played very well over the last month or two, is nowhere near an elite goalie.

[Poe969]

Originally Posted by MegaErtz

Of course! Sadly, the Flames have shown almost no history of this type of cap management. It sounds like we had a deal worked out with New Jersey until Murray Edwards balked at the salary retention. What good is it to have these types of assets when you're not willing to do what it takes to put them in play?

Our new GM has said, and I'm sure it's been reported, the team is open to retaining on contracts. Do you have proof the owner stepped in and stopped any deal?? Of course you don't, because you have no actual ties to the team.

Just try not to state your opinion as fact, that's all.

[MegaErtz]

Originally Posted by Poe969

Our new GM has said, and I'm sure it's been reported, the team is open to retaining on contracts. Do you have proof the owner stepped in and stopped any deal?? Of course you don't, because you have no actual ties to the team.

Just try not to state your opinion as fact, that's all.

The proof is in the pudding. How many times has Murray Edwards retained money on a traded contract? Once?

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by MegaErtz

Any time a team needs to retain half the remaining salary on a contract, that's not a good free agent signing.

Impressive mental gymnastics you’re attempting to pull off.

Retaining salary is a tool to be used to extract a higher value return on the asset you’re moving. Although not widespread, this is used by GM’s for that reason.

The value of the contact itself is relative to both the assets being moved and the returned asset. It has no more nor less relevance as to whether the contract is ‘good’ or not.

At the end of the day Markstrom is a Vezina calibre goalie, or at least he has been two of the last three years. Moving him at full freight has value. It’s just likely the Flames can get more if they absorb a percentage of his contract. It also is an attractive option for the Flames because they can leverage valuable cap space, which is among the most valuable asset an organization can have, to garner a greater return. So, why wouldn’t they?

Trying to conflate player performance/value to salary retention misses the mark, by a wide margin. There’s a lot you’re not taking into account in making these basic opinions of yours known. You’re not doing a very good job of presenting a well thought out argument.

The Flames are trying to build a competitive team by 2027. That’s an ambitious target to hit but not impossible. They should absolutely be using every lever they can pull on to put them in position to hit that target. And if retaining salary on high value assets who don’t fit their window is one of them, they should do it. It has nothing to do with if the contract is ‘good’ or ‘bad’. Also, Markstrom at $6M is not ‘bad’ anyway. $6M for Vezina calibre goaltending is something most/all GM’s would gladly take, I would bet.

[jmac98]

We live in a here and now society. Where once we watched the evening news or read the newspaper the next morning to find results, have now been replaced with updates on the immediate with a notification the moment it happens. You don’t even have to seek it out any further. The information comes to you. Who scored and when, who won, who’s traded.

Not too many years ago I would take the day off on Trade Deadline Day, grab my Gino Reda coffee mug and be thoroughly entertained by the group providing thoughts, analysis, hypotheticals, and insider information that often came mere moments before the fax machine spit out the contracts.

In today’s environment, we seem to often have the cart ahead of the horse. We already know things like a trade is imminent, who is likely involved, and we often get impatient waiting for reality to catch up to our perceived knowledge. We as well receive advanced information that years back we would never have been privy to, thanks in part to the advent of technology. This can also sometimes lead to that same impatience, over to skepticism, often down to disappointment or ignorance if what we hear takes too long to arrive or simply never comes to fruition.

If we desire information on the immediate, often ahead of anything official, we have to accept that we weren’t truly meant to be in on that knowledge in the first place, thus the term ‘insider’ and thus why many remain anonymous or do not share a source. Sharing rumours as such is just that, and is meant to satisfy the here & now world to which we currently reside but comes with it many variables and are subject to change.

Not all leads turn into opportunities. Not all rumours turn to fact. This has always been the case and has never changed. What ‘has’ changed is where the general public’s knowledge enters in the process.

If you want to guess what you got for Christmas, it’s fun to snoop under the tree and shake some boxes. But if all you want to know is exactly what you’re getting, just wait until Dec 25th.

Have fun everyone, and be good to one another.

[MegaErtz]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Impressive mental gymnastics you’re attempting to pull off.

Retaining salary is a tool to be used to extract a higher value return on the asset you’re moving. Although not widespread, this is used by GM’s for that reason.

The value of the contact itself is relative to both the assets being moved and the returned asset. It has no more nor less relevance as to whether the contract is ‘good’ or not.

At the end of the day Markstrom is a Vezina calibre goalie, or at least he has been two of the last three years. Moving him at full freight has value. It’s just likely the Flames can get more if they absorb a percentage of his contract. It also is an attractive option for the Flames because they can leverage valuable cap space, which is among the most valuable asset an organization can have, to garner a greater return. So, why wouldn’t they?

Trying to conflate player performance/value to salary retention misses the mark, by a wide margin. There’s a lot you’re not taking into account in making these basic opinions of yours known. You’re not doing a very good job of presenting a well thought out argument.

The Flames are trying to build a competitive team by 2027. That’s an ambitious target to hit but not impossible. They should absolutely be using every lever they can pull on to put them in position to hit that target. And if retaining salary on high value assets who don’t fit their window is one of them, they should do it. It has nothing to do with if the contract is ‘good’ or ‘bad’. Also, Markstrom at $6M is not ‘bad’ anyway. $6M for Vezina calibre goaltending is something most/all GM’s would gladly take, I would bet.

A Vezina caliber goalie, really? He won't even be a finalist.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by MegaErtz

A Vezina caliber goalie, really? He won't even be a finalist.

Does Holtz have value in your mind?

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by MegaErtz

A Vezina caliber goalie, really? He won't even be a finalist.

Ranked 4th in advanced goaltending stats and the only one on a team that isn’t on a playoff/division leading team. By almost any journalist or stat I’ve come across this year, Markstrom has been elite this year. Also, a little premature to be making those types of claims, no? If he does get traded to the Devils and maintains his level of play, which three goalies have been better?

https://moneypuck.com/goalies.htm

[Incogneto]

Originally Posted by MegaErtz

A Vezina caliber goalie, really? He won't even be a finalist.

We know you obviously aren’t a fan of Markstrom, but your pure hatred for him and his value is unfounded.

Yes, it’s fact that last year he did not have a great year. But it’s also a fact that he’s having a fantastic year this year. And thankfully for the Flames, his value is based on this year and not last year.