[Rumour] TSN: Hanifin decision expected in coming days. D market waits on Tanev

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

They don't give out separate contracts for even strength points vs PP points though. Players get paid for production. Hanifin's (total) production is not top pairing, and not $7.5M worthy. $6.5M - 7M, sure.

But again, there is also the timing aspect of it.

The Avs gave Toews a contract for even strength points.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Hanifin is criminally under rated/appreciated around here. Has been since the day the Flames acquired him.

Since he came into the league he is top 40 league wide in GP, pts, assists, etc, while playing on middling teams.

Now he is hitting his prime and so many want to run him out of town instead of making him a cog in this re-tool the club is clearly in the midst of.

Now if he is choosing to test UFA then yeah, they have to deal him. They are losing a really good player though and one that is going to be almost impossible to replace internally and will cost a bundle to replace other ways.

First of all, I am not a Hanifin-hater, but let's put some of these numbers in perspective.

He is 42nd in points, over the time he has been in Calgary. That sounds great, but that is over 400 games, and there are only 83 defensemen who have played at least 350 games in that time, so he is middle of the pack from that group. Morgan Reilly ($7.5M) has 100 more points than Hanifin over that time. Mark Giordano has more points over that time. Darnell Nurse has more points.

Hronek in Van has more points over that time - would you want to pay him $7.5M?

Hanifin's production is fine. Good, even. But is it at a level where we feel we NEED to sign him? Is it $1.5M-less-than-Makar good?

I just don't feel the need right now - take the assets.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by transplant99

It isn't?

Id say he is solidly top pairing production particularly with his lack of PP time.

Say that out loud.

[GioforPM]

I think the Hanifin comparable might be Pietrangelo.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

The Avs gave Toews a contract for even strength points.

Cool.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I think the Hanifin comparable might be Pietrangelo.

PPG over the last 6 years...

Pietrangelo: .622
Hanifin......: .445

Pietrangelo can QB the PP. Hanifin cannot

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

First of all, I am not a Hanifin-hater, but let's put some of these numbers in perspective.

He is 42nd in points, over the time he has been in Calgary. That sounds great, but that is over 400 games, and there are only 83 defensemen who have played at least 350 games in that time, so he is middle of the pack from that group. Morgan Reilly ($7.5M) has 100 more points than Hanifin over that time. Mark Giordano has more points over that time. Darnell Nurse has more points.

Hronek in Van has more points over that time - would you want to pay him $7.5M?

Hanifin's production is fine. Good, even. But is it at a level where we feel we NEED to sign him? Is it $1.5M-less-than-Makar good?

I just don't feel the need right now - take the assets.

Some of his metrics suggest he's good at transitioning and sustaining offensive pressure, but doesn't finish it himself.

He's 37th for defensemen in the last two years for actual goals when he's on the ice.

He's 26th for defensemen in the last two years for expected goals / ice time.

I think he's a much better player than his counting stats suggest.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

PPG over the last 6 years...

Pietrangelo: .622
Hanifin......: .445

Pietrangelo can QB the PP. Hanifin cannot

Points this year are almost exactly the same, and Pietrangelo does not QB their first unit - Martinez does (and I think Hanifin could do fine on the second unit). Hanifin actually has one less point on the powerplay than Pietrangelo.

EDIT: At age 27 Pietrangelo was much closer in counting stats. He was more like .48 PPG. And Hanifin also plays on a lower scoring team historically.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Cool.

I think so

[CsInMyBlood]

I've wanted Hanifin traded for a long time. Thought the perfect time to move him was after our "big season" losing to the Oilers because he had term and a solid season of stats.

I just cant stand his panic decisions when pressure is on in the playoffs. Weve seen it every year we make the post season. Hard to overlook this problem. He drives me crazy.

That said I think this has been his best season as a Flame. I have not caught myself muttering about "stupid forking Hanifin" quite as much this year.

So my stance on shipping him out has softened a bit. I still want him traded but if Conroy gives him a decent contract I wont be pulling my hair out...as long as said contract does not come with a no movement clause. If you want to sign him again you have to be able to move him if you choose. A 10 team no trade clause seems acceptable to me.

Still rather see him traded.

In Conroy I trust.

[Brendone]

Trading Hanifin is starting to have that “Trade him for the mystery box! Who knows what’s in there, it could even be a Hanifin!” feel for me.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Some of his metrics suggest he's good at transitioning and sustaining offensive pressure, but doesn't finish it himself.

He's 37th for defensemen in the last two years for actual goals when he's on the ice.

He's 26th for defensemen in the last two years for expected goals / ice time.

I think he's a much better player than his counting stats suggest.

I am not going to start the debate again about the value of those stats, but I will say this:

As you look at longer and longer periods, the stats become less and less meaningful and the actual counting stats become more and more indisputable. It is kind of ridiculous to say "over the last 5 years, his metrics say that he should have been on the ice for more goals than he was". Yeah but he wasn't!

How long are we going to keep having the discussion that Hanifin's metrics are better than his actual numbers? At some point, they have to catch up, otherwise the metric is meaningless.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Points this year are almost exactly the same, and Pietrangelo does not QB their first unit - Martinez does (and I think Hanifin could do fine on the second unit). Hanifin actually has one less point on the powerplay than Pietrangelo.

EDIT: At age 27 Pietrangelo was much closer in counting stats. He was more like .48 PPG. And Hanifin also plays on a lower scoring team historically.

Because Pietrangelo is 34 now, and no longer the player he was over the last 6-8 years.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Brendone

Trading Hanifin is starting to have that “Trade him for the mystery box! Who knows what’s in there, it could even be a Hanifin!” feel for me.

Same here. Given his age, I wouldn't mind a long term extension with him. It is unlikely that any of the pieces we get back for him will be as good as him. I also don't think the 8 x $7.5 million is far off from what he will get as a free agent from another team.

But if he doesn't want to re-sign, then it's not really a choice anyway.

[Dude Where's Makar?]

I wonder if the Lightning engage more heavily in Tanev trade talks with Sergachev going down last night. Looks like he might be out a while with a leg injury.

Lightning don't have a 24 or 25 1st.

intriguing pieces they have:
- Ethan Gauthier looks promising. 2023 2nd round pick.
- Issac Howard (not the biggest fan as I see him more of a 3rd liner)
- 2025 2nd 2024 3rd best picks they have

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by Brendone

Trading Hanifin is starting to have that “Trade him for the mystery box! Who knows what’s in there, it could even be a Hanifin!” feel for me.

Agreed, but if he doesn't want to re-sign there's not much choice, don't wanna pull a Tre

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I am not going to start the debate again about the value of those stats, but I will say this:

As you look at longer and longer periods, the stats become less and less meaningful and the actual counting stats become more and more indisputable. It is kind of ridiculous to say "over the last 5 years, his metrics say that he should have been on the ice for more goals than he was". Yeah but he wasn't!

How long are we going to keep having the discussion that Hanifin's metrics are better than his actual numbers? At some point, they have to catch up, otherwise the metric is meaningless.

Two things though.

1) That's two years ... so sample size isn't small at all.
2) They are actual stats ... the top one is actual goals when he's on the ice.

There's nothing debatable or fancy about adding up all the even strength goals when on the ice and dividing it by ice time.

If that number's high he's either the luckiest guy in the league (sample size lessens that probability), or likely a contributing factor to creating five on five offence.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Because Pietrangelo is 34 now, and no longer the player he was over the last 6-8 years.

His highest point totals and percenatges are in the last 6 seasons. His highest point total was last year (and highest PPG, tied with 4 years ago).

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Two things though.

1) That's two years ... so sample size isn't small at all.
2) They are actual stats ... the top one is actual goals when he's on the ice.

There's nothing debatable or fancy about adding up all the even strength goals when on the ice and dividing it by ice time.

If that number's high he's either the luckiest guy in the league (sample size lessens that probability), or likely a contributing factor to creating five on five offence.

The guy drives 5 on 5 production, that is just a fact. While he may not be Marc Andre Bergeron on the PP he is an offensive catalyst at even strength. Goals are scored on the PP and at even strength in the NHL.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Brendone

Trading Hanifin is starting to have that “Trade him for the mystery box! Who knows what’s in there, it could even be a Hanifin!” feel for me.

If Hanifin does not want to sign, and it doesn't look like he does, then trading him is nothing like that.

Its more like, my wife wants to shag one last time before the divorce. Might as well get what I can and move on with my life.