[Trade] Elias Lindholm to VAN for Kuzmenko, Brzustewicz, Jurmo, 2024 1st, cond 2024 4th

[HighLifeMan]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

^ I think that's the right take if you consider victory to be "this was a good trade for us" and not "we fleeced the other team", which is the viewpoint I think makes sense. The only way it could not be a win is if Kuzmenko turned into a major cap anchor for next season and that seems quite unlikely - like, 10% chance of that, 90% he's at least a useful one-dimensional offensive and PP guy, which the team clearly needs.

EDIT: From Vancouver's perspective, though, people focusing on the two PP goals in first game thing... that isn't what they acquired him for. It's a nice bonus, but what they got him for was PK and even strength. He probably hasn't got the PK figured out yet in only one practice so likely not a big contribution in that phase, but as far as even strength results, he led them in ice time and the Hurricanes didn't score at even strength. And it's the Hurricanes; even strength is what they do. That's probably the most encouraging sign for them.

The Lindholm line got slammed at at five on five last night. I wouldn't say what they did was "encouraging", but it's also one game so who cares.

[Enoch Root]

I agree with Corsi's point that it doesn't need to be a fleecing. I always liked Lindholm, and hope it works out for him there. I don't need it to be a disaster for Vancouver, in order for it to be a great trade for the Flames.

The Flames did what they needed to do (move on from Lindholm), and they got a great collection of assets in return, that suit their needs going forward.

If Kuzmenko turns out to be a hidden gem, then the deal becomes a home run win for the Flames. Even if Van wins the cup as a result of it.

[Zulu29]

Woah, pump the brakes. Unacceptable to even suggest the disgusting thought of the Canucks raising the cup!

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Zulu29

Woah, pump the brakes. Unacceptable to even suggest the disgusting thought of the Canucks raising the cup!

Shut up, no it isn't. Keep going!

Originally Posted by HighLifeMan

The Lindholm line got slammed at at five on five last night. I wouldn't say what they did was "encouraging", but it's also one game so who cares.

The entire team got slammed 5on5 in the 3rd. But possession numbers don't really relay just how dominant every Canucks line was, including this one, in the first two periods. If the Canes didn't have any pushback in the 3rd it would be incredibly concerning

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

EDIT: From Vancouver's perspective, though, people focusing on the two PP goals in first game thing... that isn't what they acquired him for. It's a nice bonus, but what they got him for was PK and even strength. He probably hasn't got the PK figured out yet in only one practice so likely not a big contribution in that phase, but as far as even strength results, he led them in ice time and the Hurricanes didn't score at even strength. And it's the Hurricanes; even strength is what they do. That's probably the most encouraging sign for them.

The power play is very much so a reason the Canucks went after Lindholm. Lindholm's entire game is what made him the number one target for the Canucks. He is legitimately a Bo Horvat replacement. Feasting on the power play was very much part of Bo Horvat's game. Also face-offs. Also the penalty kill. Also. Also. Also. The guy hits every note the Canucks wanted a rental to play.

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

If he elevates Huberdeau then that's one hell of a trade by the Conman.

Addressing huge now and future needs. It's rare that you can do that all in one trade! Have to tip your cap at how it's looking in the early goings.

No

[dammage79]

Not to disuede ppl from thinking Lindholm is back just on a new team, but he's always upped his game against Carolina. He loathes them. Remember his 1st game against Carolina when we got him? His mocking of the storm surge? Yeah.

Glad to see both teams got solid starts from their new players. Looks like a win/win. Which is what everybody wants.

[HighLifeMan]

I'll admit I bought into the narrative that Canucks fans were selling about Kuzmenko being a purely one dimensional player and defensive liability without digging into it, but I am not so sure the numbers suggest that at all - especially in comparison to a guy like Boeser who everyone seems to be in love with all of the sudden. He may not be a strong two hundred foot player and may cheat at times to create offensively, but I certainly don't see a liability by any means in these numbers.

Boeser / Kuzmenko

CF - 48.45% / 52.99
CA/60 - 60.57 / 53.68
SF% - 46.73% / 49.57%
SA/60 - 30.29 / 30.2
xGA/60 - 2.94 / 2.5
xGF% - 48.92% / 53.26%
SCF% - 49.16% / 54.82%
SCA/60 - 28.90 / 24.78
HDCF% - 44.61% / 56.38%
HDCA/60 - 12.89 / 10.58
onice SH% - 13.68% / 11.30%
onice SV% - 92.57% / 89.74%

And yes.. I know many of you don't care about these numbers, but to me they highlight that we may have gotten a much better player than many of us originally thought.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by HighLifeMan

I'll admit I bought into the narrative that Canucks fans were selling about Kuzmenko being a purely one dimensional player and defensive liability without digging into it, but I am not so sure the numbers suggest that at all - especially in comparison to a guy like Boeser who everyone seems to be in love with all of the sudden. He may not be a strong two hundred foot player and may cheat at times to create offensively, but I certainly don't see a liability by any means in these numbers.



And yes.. I know many of you don't care about these numbers, but to me they highlight that we may have gotten a much better player than many of us originally thought.

No one was selling Kuzmenko being a defensive liability? Other teams fans were. Flames fans were when he was being brought up as something being moved in a deal for Lindholm. His issue in Vancouver wasn't how bad he was defensively. The issue was he wasn't scoring. He wasn't playing well in Tocchet's system in the offensive zone. It makes his disposition to have defensive lapses less tolerable.

If he was scoring at 20-25 goal pace while forechecking properly no one would (including Tocchet by his own admission) give a #### he loses his guy or gets puck watching in the defensive zone from time to time. That's just never something he was going to be perfect at.


He puts a lot of effort in to be good defensively. He just isn't that good at it. And that's fine.

[activeStick]

I've realized that Blaster is basically dino, but for the Canucks.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by activeStick

I've realized that Blaster is basically dino, but for the Canucks.

You've just made two people very very angry.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

You've just made two people very very angry.

Oh he knew what he was doing. I giggled. He knows I appreciate this sort of thing. He secretly loves me.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by activeStick

I've realized that Blaster is basically dino, but for the Canucks.

you've JUST realized this?

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

you've JUST realized this?

Enoch's just doing it to be mean though. Mean ol' Enoch.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

Enoch's just doing it to be mean though. Mean ol' Enoch.

who you calling ol'?

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

who you calling ol'?

Epoch Enoch.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by activeStick

I've realized that Blaster is basically dino, but for the Canucks.

That can't be.

Blaster is funny. dino is ... less funny.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

The power play is very much so a reason the Canucks went after Lindholm. Lindholm's entire game is what made him the number one target for the Canucks. He is legitimately a Bo Horvat replacement. Feasting on the power play was very much part of Bo Horvat's game. Also face-offs. Also the penalty kill. Also. Also. Also. The guy hits every note the Canucks wanted a rental to play.

This one is actually interesting to me....last night isn't good for my argument but I actually have never really liked Lindholm on the PP here in Calgary.

Too static, and generally wouldn't make quick enough decisions with the puck.

It's quite possible he was used entirely wrong and he's going to turn into Tomas Holmstrom in Vancouver as a net front presence but I actually wonder if Kuzmenko is not a better power play threat than Lindholm.

Will be interesting to see longer term...in the end Hughes and Pettersson are going to drive that bus on the PP anyways so probably doesn'ts matter. He will help win the faceoff though, especially on his strong side, so that might be a big help.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

who you calling ol'?

You're so old, you get mentioned in the book of Genesis.

[jg13]

Kuzmenko in 10 games: 5 goals 1 assist
Lindholm in 14 games: 4 goals 2 assists

[JurassicTunga12]

W for Conroy.