[Trade] Elias Lindholm to VAN for Kuzmenko, Brzustewicz, Jurmo, 2024 1st, cond 2024 4th

[Sylvanfan]

Last year I do remember Rutherford saying the Canucks were willing to pay Horvat for the player he had been, but would not pay him like the 50 goal and 90 point player he had been through 30-40 games for one year. So I won't be surprised if they don't get Lindholm signed. I think that once Lindholm settles his contract, he'll start playing better. Once the Flames gave him the security of a 6 year deal he played his best hockey right from the start of it. Really do you want a guy who overperforms in a contract year and wants to be paid top dollar than fade....or a guy who once you pay him performs as well as you can expect? Give me a Lindholm over Huberdesu or Gaudreau any day.

The return is fine, but we'll see how many years it takes to get another decent center. By eating Kuzmenko's deal maybe it hamstrings the Flames from overpaying for a second rate center in FA this summer. So that would be good.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

More conditions on the pick per capfriendly

https://twitter.com/user/status/1753088076727853426

Craig that softie.

Seems like he pulled every lever in this trade to provide the team whatever small incremental upside he could find. Getting the 'better' of a 4th round pick may not matter 999 out of a 1000, but it speaks to his attention to the details.

[Fischy13]

Originally Posted by getbak

No, that is incorrect. Only the final 4 spots in the draft change based on playoff performance. The losers of the Conference Finals get picks 29 and 30, the loser of the Final gets pick 31, and the Cup Champ gets pick 32. Picks 17-32 are based entirely on the final standings.

Look at 2019, the Flames finished 2nd overall but lost in the first round, so they got pick #26.


If Vancouver holds on to finish first overall, their pick will either be 28th (if they lose in the first 2 rounds), 30th (if they lose in the Conference Final), or 31st (if they lose the Final). Since it's the Canucks, we know if won't be 32nd overall.

So the only difference to what I thought is that the first two rounds are combined. Instead of each on their own. Otherwise it’s the same. Rounds one and two losers are ranked as per standings.

Appreciate the clarification.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Last year I do remember Rutherford saying the Canucks were willing to pay Horvat for the player he had been, but would not pay him like the 50 goal and 90 point player he had been through 30-40 games for one year. So I won't be surprised if they don't get Lindholm signed. I think that once Lindholm settles his contract, he'll start playing better. Once the Flames gave him the security of a 6 year deal he played his best hockey right from the start of it. Really do you want a guy who overperforms in a contract year and wants to be paid top dollar than fade....or a guy who once you pay him performs as well as you can expect?

The return is fine, but we'll see how many years it takes to get another decent center. By eating Kuzmenko's deal maybe it hamstrings the Flames from overpaying for a second rate center in FA this summer. So that would be good.

Lindholm outperformed his contract here for sure, so the saying he starting playing better after getting a long term deal doesn't make sense because he was not making what his production would have cost had he signed a 2-3 year bridge deal.

I just don't think he is as good as his numbers says if he is not surrounded by top end talent on his wings. He completes a line, but he can't drive a line.

[fotze2]

I'm sure its asked but I cannot find.

Is it pronounced BrustaVitz? Bruestavitz? Brueshtavitz?

[D as in David]

Minus any NHL-level centers Conroy may pick up on other trades this year, it will be interesting to see what kind of impact the loss of a centerman of Lindholm's level will have on the Flame's overall offense. I wouldn't expect too much from Kuzmenko, as a result, as well as a negative impact on Sharangovich and/or Huberdeau.

We'll never know now, but if Ruzicka hadn't been lost on waivers, I would have been curious to see how the Flames would have set up their lines with him still around.

[Enoch Root]

Another aspect of the whole player-value discussion, is that players have different value to different teams, depending on needs and situation.

To teams like COL or EDM, a guy like Kuzmenko does nothing for them - they already have good PPs and can score goals, so he doesn't help them. Conversely, for teams like PHI or STL or those that need PP help, and could use a goal scorer, and wouldn't be as concerned about his flawed game, he has significantly more value.

For the Flames, they really need PP help, and they can use another goal scorer, so he has much more appeal to the Flames, than to most teams.

Also, his cap hit is a non-starter for a lot of teams, but is not a deterrent at all for the Flames, and they can carry his cap hit to next year's deadline, where he will be a more palatable acquisition target for a team adding for the playoffs.

And this idea of value being different for different teams is why I think this is such a great trade overall. Lindholm is exactly what VAN needs, and his cap hit makes him extremely appealing for them. The Flames love acquiring two D prospects - especially a righty - because they are seriously devoid of them currently. Same with the picks - exactly what they want.

Both teams improve in areas they are looking to. Win/win.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by D as in David

Minus any NHL-level centers Conroy may pick up on other trades this year, it will be interesting to see what kind of impact the loss of a centerman of Lindholm's level will have on the Flame's overall offense. I wouldn't expect too much from Kuzmenko, as a result, as well as a negative impact on Sharangovich and/or Huberdeau.

We'll never know now, but if Ruzicka hadn't been lost on waivers, I would have been curious to see how the Flames would have set up their lines with him still around.

The guy was a ghost all season, his impact will be felt on faceoffs and penalty kill, outside of that he was terrible and pretty much quit on the team waiting for a trade after he didn't get paid.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by fotze2

I'm sure its asked but I cannot find.

Is it pronounced BrustaVitz? Bruestavitz? Brueshtavitz?

Bruschetta.

[tony-soprano]

Like this deal for Conroy, this sets the standard for upcoming trades.

Wonder if Flames are getting calls on Coleman, dudes killing it this year and a beast in the playoffs.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Lindholm outperformed his contract here for sure, so the saying he starting playing better after getting a long term deal doesn't make sense because he was not making what his production would have cost had he signed a 2-3 year bridge deal.

This makes zero sense and is hypothetical.

Many players over perform in contract years, struggle after getting the big deal, than rebound to be more like their career norms.

I think Lindhom is struggling this year, but once his situation settles will play better. Never said he was an ultra elite play driving center. But he can be better than he's been this year.

The Flames will miss him. But it's time to move on, the team has major talent deficiencies coming with or without him.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by D as in David

Minus any NHL-level centers Conroy may pick up on other trades this year, it will be interesting to see what kind of impact the loss of a centerman of Lindholm's level will have on the Flame's overall offense. I wouldn't expect too much from Kuzmenko, as a result, as well as a negative impact on Sharangovich and/or Huberdeau.

We'll never know now, but if Ruzicka hadn't been lost on waivers, I would have been curious to see how the Flames would have set up their lines with him still around.

Lindholms’ departure will have a bigger impact on the defensive side of the puck. I don’t know that Sharangovich (or whoever) will be up to the challenge of the defensive responsibilities of a #1/2 C in the NHL.

[albertGQ]

The Canucks are my second most hated team. But they are a distant second to the Oilers. So I will be cheering for them until the Oilers get knocked out. I want all the big guns in our division in the playoffs (Vegas & Nucks) until the Oilers are knocked out.

I'll take the 29th pick over the 26th pick if that means they are the ones to knock out the Oilers. Once the No Goods are out, I will be cheering for whatever team plays the Canucks

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by tony-soprano

Like this deal for Conroy, this sets the standard for upcoming trades.

Wonder if Flames are getting calls on Coleman, dudes killing it this year and a beast in the playoffs.

People keep saying this, and I wonder too. I do think us Flames fans are probably over-estimating how much impact Coleman's year is having on his value. Don't get me wrong, I think Coleman is an incredibly valuable piece to a contending team, but I don't think GMs around the league will be putting too much stock in the extra offensive side of things he's showing this year.

He's pretty established, and I think most will still view him as the gritty, PK, "type you need in the playoffs", cup experience guy he is, not all that + offensive threat. All that to say, that feels like a player who's value will be highest when his contract is expiring. I just don't see people wanting multiple years of Coleman necissarily.

Edit: holy smokes I forgot how many more years we have Coleman locked down.

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by tony-soprano

Like this deal for Conroy, this sets the standard for upcoming trades.

Wonder if Flames are getting calls on Coleman, dudes killing it this year and a beast in the playoffs.

Maybe he becomes the new Justin Williams. Whereby teams at the deadline always seemed to want to add him because of his playoff pedigree.

[Nelson]

I really like that the Flames still have 3 retention spots after this trade. Might allow them to trade one or more of the veterans having a good season with term left: Markstrom, Kadri or Coleman.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Lindholms’ departure will have a bigger impact on the defensive side of the puck. I don’t know that Sharangovich (or whoever) will be up to the challenge of the defensive responsibilities of a #1/2 C in the NHL.

Absolutely. As disappointing as his offensive game has been, he still a very strong 2-way game that some just don't appreciate enough, IMO. If we assume, the Backlund and Kadri lines are best kept intact, the pickings get very slim at center ice and whatever the makeup of that line becomes, there's a high possibility it gets caved in defensively.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Nelson

I really like that the Flames still have 3 retention spots after this trade. Might allow them to trade one or more of the veterans having a good season with term left: Markstrom, Kadri or Coleman.

Assuming they are willing to actually do it.

[cral12]

Just thinking about the state of affairs, the trade market this past offseason, it seemed like the worst possible timing to be trying to trade Lindy, Hanny, etc.

Now it seems like there's been a great shift in the trade market - not too surprising, but now have to hand it to Connie and the patience he has showed.

[Dajazz]

Hey, just saw this. Pretty cool deal!

This Kuz guy isn’t sustaining last years 27% that’s for sure, but could be a decent 20/20 guy if he’d put in any effort in all zones.

Maybe flip him at this, or next deadline. Perhaps he gels with Hubby and scores 20g more to close out the season and is flipped before the draft.

Either way, good deal, now say bye to Markstrom and we’re good to tank for 1-2 seasons.