[Trade] Elias Lindholm to VAN for Kuzmenko, Brzustewicz, Jurmo, 2024 1st, cond 2024 4th

[Shazam]

lol I always think of Fred Dryer.

[Enoch Root]

Every team has a handful (more or less) of interesting prospects. So with 32 teams, we're talking about 100-200 guys. Of course most won't have been mentioned prior to the trade. That does not mean that people weren't aware of them, or that they aren't that highly touted. Or that there is recency bias in talking about them now.

[transplant99]

Yeah....the U.S. National Development Team is nothing if it isnt extremely political and kids who have chosen the major junior route are often left on the outside looking in for doing so.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

Trade grades are fun for conversation.

initially, it seems like a good deal for both teams. Vancouver gave up more than they would have liked and Calgary didn't get everything they wanted.

We'll have to reserve judgement on this trade for a couple of years at least however...

Exactly; the grade will also have to include whatever the draft picks become and to some extent what the Flames own 1st rounder becomes because we likely drop in the standings now.

In the immediate, it makes a lot more sense to grade Conroy on the direction he is going. He didn't re sign Lindholm to a retirement contract; he didn't prioritize getting back win now players and he accumulated assets for the future.
Exactly what most of us have been wanting.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I have a hard time putting Brzustewicz ahead of Morin (I really like Morin). I really like both, and for me, they are both ahead of Poirier, due to their upside, and I am not as high on Poirier as some are.

Not sure why you think Pelletier is too high.

In the Hockey News top 100 redone recently. Hunter is in the 50's, Pelletier, Poirier and Morin unmentioned.

Pelletier seems like a middle forward to me. Coronato and Honzek still have top 6 potential.

Hunter simply has better offensive upside that the other Flames dmen prospects.

TIme will tell for sure.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Fischy13

If I’m not mistaken, and I don’t think I am, the best the Vancouver 1st could be is 24th overall if they remain in 1st place in the league. How I understand it, each round the teams knocked out are ranked in order of their overall ranking:

Pick #17 goes to the team with the lowest overall record of the first round losers
Pick #18 goes to the team with the second lowest overall record of the first round losers
Pick #24 goes to the team with the best record of the first round losers.

So if Vancouver is first in the league come playoff time, they will be the 24th overall in a first round exit scenario.

No, that is incorrect. Only the final 4 spots in the draft change based on playoff performance. The losers of the Conference Finals get picks 29 and 30, the loser of the Final gets pick 31, and the Cup Champ gets pick 32. Picks 17-28 are based entirely on the final standings.

Look at 2019, the Flames finished 2nd overall but lost in the first round, so they got pick #26.


If Vancouver holds on to finish first overall, their pick will either be 28th (if they lose in the first 2 rounds), 30th (if they lose in the Conference Final), or 31st (if they lose the Final). Since it's the Canucks, we know if won't be 32nd overall.

[activeStick]

I like this deal especially because it doesn't include the two guys who were discussed earlier in Hoglander or Podkolzin. Kuzmenko also fits into what I believe is the underlying Flames goal to stay competitive and not completely bottom out like a San Jose or Buffalo. If Kuzmenko can rediscover his game and get anywhere near his 39 goal production the rest of this season and next, they've found a player and can try to extend him next year. If he isn't a fit or he produces but maybe not at that clip, they can trade him next deadline for a 1st assuming he doesn't bottom out in production completely, which I don't think he will given what he's shown so far. In some ways, it's almost like the Sharangovich dice roll and the Flames won that one with the player bouncing back in a big way in a new environment.

The Hunter kid sounds awesome, so that's the piece I'm most excited about. But to also get a 1st and a conditional 4th, too? Bravo, Conroy!

[t0rrent98]

Damn. Hate to see Lindholm go but I guess he played his way out of Calgary. He seemed disinterest this season except for maybe the last couple games it looked like. Wish him all the best.

[Hot_Flatus]

Lindholm is a depreciated asset and can't be viewed as the 40 goal scorer he was 2-3 years ago. In reality, he's a guy that scored 40 and is otherwise a solid 2C with upside.

Because of these factors, I like the deal. If Conroy can now navigate moving Tanev + Hanifin + Vladar, the Flames should be in a good position to have a draft haul this year, while also advancing prospects like Coronato, Pelletier, Wolf and possibly any other promising younger players that come back in deals.

[direwolf]

This is definitely a win/win. Flames get a good haul, and the Canucks increase their chances of stomping the Oilers with the addition of Lindholm. I like this trade.

Excellent work, Conroy!

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by heep223

It really depends how you define A and B prospects. In your mind, is an A prospect someone who is likely going to become a regular NHLer? Or someone who has high potential to be top line/top pair?

Typically I would suggest this.

A+ (bluechipper) - potential to be a franchise player or season all star on a consistent basis. Star player guaranteed.

A - top player at his position for his team (best center, best wing, best defenseman). Guaranteed to play and be successful in the NHL.

B - Top six forward, top four defenseman, starting goaltender (goaltenders rarely achieve A status as they are voodoo!). Has a better than 50% of playing in the show for more than a season.

C - Middle six to bottom six forward, bottom four defenseman, backup goaltender. Might play in the NHL for stretches.

D - Bottom of the NHL roster to top end AHL player. Fills gaps here and there.

F - Career minor leaguer with major flaws in their game that will prevent them from getting to the NHL without a ticket.

The Flames do not have an A+ or an A player in their system. A lot of teams don't in my estimation. The best prospects on teams in the bottom half of the league will struggle to achieve the hype. So many things have to go right for a player to get to the pinnacle of their sport. Hockey is really hard because there are so few jobs available, even on the bad teams. The system just doesn't allow for players to find their way into the NHL without being exceptional at something and at least average at everything. If you're going to be a star (A player) you need to be above average to exceptional at almost everything (no holes in your game).

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by getbak

No, that is incorrect. Only the final 4 spots in the draft change based on playoff performance. The losers of the Conference Finals get picks 29 and 30, the loser of the Final gets pick 31, and the Cup Champ gets pick 32. Picks 17-32 are based entirely on the final standings.

Look at 2019, the Flames finished 2nd overall but lost in the first round, so they got pick #26.


If Vancouver holds on to finish first overall, their pick will either be 28th (if they lose in the first 2 rounds), 30th (if they lose in the Conference Final), or 31st (if they lose the Final). Since it's the Canucks, we know if won't be 32nd overall.

So really the debate is what is better something around 28th and 128th or 30th and 94th.

[Royle9]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

This is going to be weird for a while. Every time I see "Hunter" I default to "Shinkaruk."

Sent from my SM-G986W using Tapatalk

Dont forget Flames Legend Hunter SMITH

[Huntingwhale]

Heard about the trade before checking out this thread. Read it from the start and some good chuckles were in the first dozen pages, thanks to the power of hindsight. But wow, is this the biggest haul the Flames have EVER gotten for a pending UFA?? On paper and at this moment, it seems like an absolutely massive haul for a player who checked out recently. Love Lindholm, but the time to move on was now. I don't hate the Canucks at all anymore and actually like a lot of their players. VAN/CGY player swaps seem to have worked out well over the past few seasons.

Only funny thing is that there is a lot of online chatter that Lindholm moves the needle quite a bit to making the Canucks a WCF contender. Unless he magically breaks out huge this playoff run, I don't see him as such. But you never know. He's crapped the bed this past season as a pending UFA and probably was on pace to lose a larger payday then he would have gotten had he played up to his standard, but a good playoff run will easily fix that. He was never going to get that kind of run here in Calgary (even if the team made the playoffs), but he has as good a chance as any to redeem his value with a good run.

Originally Posted by Baaarrden

Anyone know how to pronounce that?

Pretty sure his name has Polish origins. From what I've learned with my Polish language exposure over the past few years, Brzustewicz would be Brr-jews-te-vich.

Z with a soft J . W is a v sound. Cz is pronounced with a "ch" sound.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Not to be a pedant, but we should probably label that later pick as a conditional 3rd round pick, since the conditions are related to it being in the 3rd round. The default is a 4th round pick, so either just call it a 4th round pick or a conditional 3rd round pick...or to be annoying, a conditional 3rd/4th round pick.

[Enoch Root]

Kuzmenko is a real wild card in this deal, and I think some people may be premature in dismissing him as a cap dump.

We only have 2 seasons to go on: 74 points last year, and a 40 point pace this year. Those are 2 different players, so which is it? I think many people put too much weight on the current season - players have good and bad years, and the 'truth' is usually somewhere in between.

Was last year a heater with a high shooting percentage? No doubt, there is some truth to that. But he put up 39 goals in the NHL, and that is not something to be simply ignored.

Obviously, he isn't having the same kind of success this year. Is that because last year is a fluke? Or is it more likely that he isn't fitting in with the new coach's plans/systems? That seems more likely to me, at least as part of the story.

$5.5M is a pretty significant cap hit - similar to Mangiapane, and they are in similar situations in that they are not performing to that cap hit this year. Is Mangiapane a cap dump? I certainly don't think so. IMO, Kuzmenko is a good comparable to Mangiapane. And I think both can be useful guys, that can provide useful production, in the right situation.

So I think it's good that he has another year on his contract, because the Flames can give him a full season to see what he really is, and then either sign him, or trade him at next year's deadline, when he will have more vale than now, because his cap hit won't be a problem at the deadline.

tl/dr: Kuzmenko is an asset, not a cap dump

[1991 Canadian]

I really like Lindholm as a player. The Canucks can put him on any line and he'll have success.

Put Lindholm with mediocre players (like the Flames this year), he'll be mediocre. Put him with elite players, he'll be elite.

Two decent D prospects is a nice get. The Flames are a bit light on D in the system. Fills a need.

A late first + conditional 4th is always useful.

I like Kuzmenko as well. This year, as an average sized winger trending to a 40 point season he's overpaid at 5.5 million. But the fact that he only has one more year left on his contract is ideal. Worst case, he declines even more next year and you cut him loose. Best case, he gets more icetime/points and becomes a decent deadline asset if the Flames retain salary. From a free agent standpoint this year, I’d be surprised if the Flames could convince any decent player to sign with them on a 1 year deal (with the intent of flipping them at the deadline).

Could be fun to look back at this as a 1st, 4th, 2 prospects and a 2025 2nd round pick (my optimistic return for Kuzmenko next year).

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by activeStick

Kuzmenko also fits into what I believe is the underlying Flames goal to stay competitive and not completely bottom out like a San Jose or Buffalo.

I think at this point not bottoming out would be a curse rather than a blessing. Doesn't mean you have to become Buffalo long term.

[howard_the_duck]

Live look at Conroy

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

That's strange. I just did a search for mentions of Brzustewicz on this site and your name never came up in that search except for this post. Outside of Aarongavey (trade thread), JiriHrdina (trade thread), Sandman (draft), Royal9 (draft), RingofFire (draft), Sureloss (draft) and myself (prospect rankings), Brzustewicz was not mentioned by anyone prior to the trade going down. So in context, Aarongavey and JiriHrdina earn kudos for being the only people to have mentioned Brzustewicz as a possible pickup. Jiri even framed it as "So Kuzmenko+1st+lesser prospect. It's slim pickings".

Yeah certainly I viewed Brzustewicz as a tier below Wallinder and Lekkerimäki. I think then you had Raty and Brz in the next tier, and then after that - basically nothing of interest (thus the slim pickings comment)