[Trade] Elias Lindholm to VAN for Kuzmenko, Brzustewicz, Jurmo, 2024 1st, cond 2024 4th

[kipperiggy]

Originally Posted by Hackey

The Score rated the trade an A for the Canucks and a B- for the Flames.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.the...ws/2835022/amp

We got a large number of assets but given Kuzmenko is a cap dump I feel like we could have gotten a couple higher quality assets (maybe 24 OR 25 1st for example). Or a blue chip prospect to go with the reclamation project. Flames gave up the best player (albeit a rental) so I can see why some are ranking it lower for the Flames.

Not sure giving the Canucks an A for giving up the sheer number of assets for a rental is a win, though I suppose the cap dump for them makes it a win.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

Or you can just admit that he isn’t a B prospect. And you’re selling Lekkerimaki and Willander short.

In a quick redraft of the most recent draft, I’m willing to bet Brzu has skyrocketed his draft spot 50 spots.

I'm selling Lekkerimaki and Willander short? Or is it possibly you overrating them, just like you're overrating Brzustewicz? If these three kids were the A to A+ prospects, as some have suggested, the Canucks would have one of the best prospect pools in the league. Three A to A+ players in their stable? How could they be ranked anywhere from 16 to 22 in organizational rankings? That doesn't make sense. That tells me the best of the bunch are not bluechip prospects (A+) and fall well below that. The Hockey Writers mid season rankings has Lekkerimaki at 25, which is hardly bluechip range. Wallinder is at 40, sandwiched between the Flames Matt Coronato and Samuel Honzek, who are clearly a B level prospects. Brzustewicz is at 55 with Conor Geekie and Easton Cowan, who are B level prospects.

There is nothing wrong with being a B level prospect. You get some good NHL players out of B level prospects and Brzustewicz being a B level prospect while being drafted in the third round is a good thing. As I've said repeatedly in the lead up to the deadline, I'll take all the B level prospects I can get right now as they will fill out the lineup and make the organization immediately better. Those are quality bullets in the chamber, now the team just has to make sure the bullet fires and hits the target.

One last comment, and this is strictly on the power of recency bias creeping into the discussion. Hardly anyone on this site had heard of Brzustewicz before the trade happened. Never mentioned in possible targets, never brought up as a dark horse prospect to be included, not even talked about as prospects to watch coming up. He wasn't on the radar at all. But now that he appears to be the centerpiece in the deal he's being quickly elevated to levels never considered before. If the player was not at that level prior to being a Flame he is not going to magically elevate his game to new heights because he is now in our stable. A player is what he is regardless of the team who owns his rights. Brzustewicz was a "good" prospect as a member of the Canucks and remains a "good" prospect as a member of the Flames. Nothing has changed except his name has been in print more in the last 12 hours than the rest of his life combined. He's going to look really good in the system next to Morin and Poirier as our offensive defensemen prospects.

[Ford Prefect]

Also Jarret Stoll, but I don’t remember for sure if he wouldn’t sign or the Flames didn’t want to sign him.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Ford Prefect

Also Jarret Stoll, but I don’t remember for sure if he wouldn’t sign or the Flames didn’t want to sign him.

That was over twenty years ago. Again, the point is that these incidents do not constitute a "history." This is a non-issue.

[Flamescuprun2018]

Originally Posted by Hackey

The Score rated the trade an A for the Canucks and a B- for the Flames.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.the...ws/2835022/amp

Well someone viewed the Toffoli for Sharky/Suniev trade an A for NJ and F for Flames. So this is an improvement.

Like how that is turning out.

Looking at those OHL assist numbers. I think this trade ages well for the Flames.

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

I'm selling Lekkerimaki and Willander short? Or is it possibly you overrating them, just like you're overrating Brzustewicz? If these three kids were the A to A+ prospects, as some have suggested, the Canucks would have one of the best prospect pools in the league. Three A to A+ players in their stable? How could they be ranked anywhere from 16 to 22 in organizational rankings? That doesn't make sense. That tells me the best of the bunch are not bluechip prospects (A+) and fall well below that. The Hockey Writers mid season rankings has Lekkerimaki at 25, which is hardly bluechip range. Wallinder is at 40, sandwiched between the Flames Matt Coronato and Samuel Honzek, who are clearly a B level prospects. Brzustewicz is at 55 with Conor Geekie and Easton Cowan, who are B level prospects.

There is nothing wrong with being a B level prospect. You get some good NHL players out of B level prospects and Brzustewicz being a B level prospect while being drafted in the third round is a good thing. As I've said repeatedly in the lead up to the deadline, I'll take all the B level prospects I can get right now as they will fill out the lineup and make the organization immediately better. Those are quality bullets in the chamber, now the team just has to make sure the bullet fires and hits the target.

One last comment, and this is strictly on the power of recency bias creeping into the discussion. Hardly anyone on this site had heard of Brzustewicz before the trade happened. Never mentioned in possible targets, never brought up as a dark horse prospect to be included, not even talked about as prospects to watch coming up. He wasn't on the radar at all. But now that he appears to be the centerpiece in the deal he's being quickly elevated to levels never considered before. If the player was not at that level prior to being a Flame he is not going to magically elevate his game to new heights because he is now in our stable. A player is what he is regardless of the team who owns his rights. Brzustewicz was a "good" prospect as a member of the Canucks and remains a "good" prospect as a member of the Flames. Nothing has changed except his name has been in print more in the last 12 hours than the rest of his life combined. He's going to look really good in the system next to Morin and Poirier as our offensive defensemen prospects.

I have brought up Brzustewicz here on multiple occasions. Great pick from the Canucks. High risk, high upside. Has the best OHL stats in the past 25 years after Ryan Ellis (who was good, but could never stay healthy).

[Geeoff]

Originally Posted by Hackey

The Score rated the trade an A for the Canucks and a B- for the Flames.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.the...ws/2835022/amp

I don't see how this trade can realistically get an A for the Canucks unless they have a reasonable extension lined up for Lindholm or they win the Stanley Cup with him as a rental

[EVERLAST]

Conroy did pretty well. Yeah it's early but getting prospects , prospects to develop and potential it seems like a win .

Getting better is all I care to see . I've watched this team take teeny tiny steps to improve and then it blows up in their faces.

Just watching YouTube on all the players involved gives me a little hope that the future is not so dim for the Flames.

If we can sign these guys and keep them here and with a new building coming hopefully become a more attractive landing spot going forward.

I'd say compared to a year ago things are oozing with potential. There's allot of things to like today.

Conroy is a hard worker.. ..i also don't think he gets thr respect he deseves either but it's early. He has a good cast of people supporting him .

[Enoch Root]

So where do people slot these 2 into the Flames prospect ranking? Here is the vote from the summer:

1) Wolf
2) Coronato
3) Honzek
4) Pelletier
5) Zary
6) poirier
7) Morin
8) Suniev
9) Kuznetsov
10)Stromgren
11) Solovyov

Obviously Zary skyrockets (ignoring that he graduates), and Solovyov probably climbs as well. In a redo, I would go with the following:

1) Wolf
2) Zary
3) Coronato
4) Pelletier
5) Honzek
6) Morin
7) Brzustewicz, Suniev
9) Poirier
10) Solovyov
11) Kuznetsov
12) Jurmo

thoughts?

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

So where do people slot these 2 into the Flames prospect ranking? Here is the vote from the summer:

1) Wolf
2) Coronato
3) Honzek
4) Pelletier
5) Zary
6) poirier
7) Morin
8) Suniev
9) Kuznetsov
10)Stromgren
11) Solovyov

Obviously Zary skyrockets (ignoring that he graduates), and Solovyov probably climbs as well. In a redo, I would go with the following:

1) Wolf
2) Zary
3) Coronato
4) Pelletier
5) Honzek
6) Morin
7) Brzustewicz, Suniev
9) Poirier
10) Solovyov
11) Kuznetsov
12) Jurmo

thoughts?

Pelletier too high.

Hunter fits in with Coronato and Honzek.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

I'm selling Lekkerimaki and Willander short? Or is it possibly you overrating them, just like you're overrating Brzustewicz? If these three kids were the A to A+ prospects, as some have suggested, the Canucks would have one of the best prospect pools in the league. Three A to A+ players in their stable? How could they be ranked anywhere from 16 to 22 in organizational rankings? That doesn't make sense. That tells me the best of the bunch are not bluechip prospects (A+) and fall well below that. The Hockey Writers mid season rankings has Lekkerimaki at 25, which is hardly bluechip range. Wallinder is at 40, sandwiched between the Flames Matt Coronato and Samuel Honzek, who are clearly a B level prospects. Brzustewicz is at 55 with Conor Geekie and Easton Cowan, who are B level prospects.

There is nothing wrong with being a B level prospect. You get some good NHL players out of B level prospects and Brzustewicz being a B level prospect while being drafted in the third round is a good thing. As I've said repeatedly in the lead up to the deadline, I'll take all the B level prospects I can get right now as they will fill out the lineup and make the organization immediately better. Those are quality bullets in the chamber, now the team just has to make sure the bullet fires and hits the target.

One last comment, and this is strictly on the power of recency bias creeping into the discussion. Hardly anyone on this site had heard of Brzustewicz before the trade happened. Never mentioned in possible targets, never brought up as a dark horse prospect to be included, not even talked about as prospects to watch coming up. He wasn't on the radar at all. But now that he appears to be the centerpiece in the deal he's being quickly elevated to levels never considered before. If the player was not at that level prior to being a Flame he is not going to magically elevate his game to new heights because he is now in our stable. A player is what he is regardless of the team who owns his rights. Brzustewicz was a "good" prospect as a member of the Canucks and remains a "good" prospect as a member of the Flames. Nothing has changed except his name has been in print more in the last 12 hours than the rest of his life combined. He's going to look really good in the system next to Morin and Poirier as our offensive defensemen prospects.

It really depends how you define A and B prospects. In your mind, is an A prospect someone who is likely going to become a regular NHLer? Or someone who has high potential to be top line/top pair?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Pelletier too high.

Hunter fits in with Coronato and Honzek.

I have a hard time putting Brzustewicz ahead of Morin (I really like Morin). I really like both, and for me, they are both ahead of Poirier, due to their upside, and I am not as high on Poirier as some are.

Not sure why you think Pelletier is too high.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by jeffman

Hanifin ain’t signing here

Based on?

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

I'm selling Lekkerimaki and Willander short? Or is it possibly you overrating them, just like you're overrating Brzustewicz? If these three kids were the A to A+ prospects, as some have suggested, the Canucks would have one of the best prospect pools in the league. Three A to A+ players in their stable? How could they be ranked anywhere from 16 to 22 in organizational rankings? That doesn't make sense. That tells me the best of the bunch are not bluechip prospects (A+) and fall well below that. The Hockey Writers mid season rankings has Lekkerimaki at 25, which is hardly bluechip range. Wallinder is at 40, sandwiched between the Flames Matt Coronato and Samuel Honzek, who are clearly a B level prospects. Brzustewicz is at 55 with Conor Geekie and Easton Cowan, who are B level prospects.

There is nothing wrong with being a B level prospect. You get some good NHL players out of B level prospects and Brzustewicz being a B level prospect while being drafted in the third round is a good thing. As I've said repeatedly in the lead up to the deadline, I'll take all the B level prospects I can get right now as they will fill out the lineup and make the organization immediately better. Those are quality bullets in the chamber, now the team just has to make sure the bullet fires and hits the target.

One last comment, and this is strictly on the power of recency bias creeping into the discussion. Hardly anyone on this site had heard of Brzustewicz before the trade happened. Never mentioned in possible targets, never brought up as a dark horse prospect to be included, not even talked about as prospects to watch coming up. He wasn't on the radar at all. But now that he appears to be the centerpiece in the deal he's being quickly elevated to levels never considered before. If the player was not at that level prior to being a Flame he is not going to magically elevate his game to new heights because he is now in our stable. A player is what he is regardless of the team who owns his rights. Brzustewicz was a "good" prospect as a member of the Canucks and remains a "good" prospect as a member of the Flames. Nothing has changed except his name has been in print more in the last 12 hours than the rest of his life combined. He's going to look really good in the system next to Morin and Poirier as our offensive defensemen prospects.

I think that this is a good nuanced assessment. I honestly think that he may be a good player but realistically how many times have we seen a player who performed fantastically in juniors fail to make a dent in the NHL because those small flaws in their games are exploited at a higher level. H is trending in the right direction and this is a solid bet by the Flames in turning an expiring asset into 5 assets.

Both teams got exactly what they wanted out of this trade and exactly what they needed. The Canucks have a very unexpected window that they can push for and the Flames have had their window slam shut in the past 2 years and thankfully have taken the approach of rebuilding. The more shots/prospects that they have the greater the chance of success.

I honestly think that this is an exciting time to be a Flames fan.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Trade grades are fun for conversation.

initially, it seems like a good deal for both teams. Vancouver gave up more than they would have liked and Calgary didn't get everything they wanted.

We'll have to reserve judgement on this trade for a couple of years at least however...

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

So where do people slot these 2 into the Flames prospect ranking? Here is the vote from the summer:

1) Wolf
2) Coronato
3) Honzek
4) Pelletier
5) Zary
6) poirier
7) Morin
8) Suniev
9) Kuznetsov
10)Stromgren
11) Solovyov

Obviously Zary skyrockets (ignoring that he graduates), and Solovyov probably climbs as well. In a redo, I would go with the following:

1) Wolf
2) Zary
3) Coronato
4) Pelletier
5) Honzek
6) Morin
7) Brzustewicz, Suniev
9) Poirier
10) Solovyov
11) Kuznetsov
12) Jurmo

thoughts?

Seems about right.
There was a really good in-depth piece on Hunter in the summer by Scott Wheeler noting he wrecked his shoulder, lost a year, and got left behind in the US team. At the time I thought damn the Canucks have found money.
But healthy and crushing the OHL he still could not make the WJC team, even over younger players. There are obviously still some flaws.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

I think that this is a good nuanced assessment. I honestly think that he may be a good player but realistically how many times have we seen a player who performed fantastically in juniors fail to make a dent in the NHL because those small flaws in their games are exploited at a higher level. H is trending in the right direction and this is a solid bet by the Flames in turning an expiring asset into 5 assets.

Both teams got exactly what they wanted out of this trade and exactly what they needed. The Canucks have a very unexpected window that they can push for and the Flames have had their window slam shut in the past 2 years and thankfully have taken the approach of rebuilding. The more shots/prospects that they have the greater the chance of success.

I honestly think that this is an exciting time to be a Flames fan.

Yup....happens all the time.

Hunter is trending towards being named CHL defenseman of the year.

Heady stuff and something to be very proud of.

However, it really does not mean a whole lot in relation to becoming a NHL regular, never mind a top pairing type.

Here is a list of the last 20 winners....not over whelming to be sure, but also does have some good ones.

2003–04 James Wisniewski Plymouth Whalers OHL
2004–05 Danny Syvret London Knights OHL
2005–06 Keith Yandle Moncton Wildcats QMJHL
2006–07 Kris Russell Medicine Hat Tigers WHL
2007–08 Karl Alzner Calgary Hitmen WHL
2008–09 Jonathon Blum Vancouver Giants WHL
2009–10 David Savard Moncton Wildcats QMJHL
2010–11 Ryan Ellis Windsor Spitfires OHL
2011–12 Dougie Hamilton Niagara IceDogs OHL
2012–13 Ryan Sproul Sault Ste. Marie Greyhounds OHL
2013–14 Derrick Pouliot Portland Winterhawks WHL
2014–15 Tony DeAngelo Sarnia Sting/Sault Ste. Marie Greyhounds OHL
2015–16 Ivan Provorov Brandon Wheat Kings WHL
2016–17 Thomas Chabot Saint John Sea Dogs QMJHL
2017–18 Nicolas Hague Mississauga Steelheads OHL
2018–19 Ty Smith Spokane Chiefs WHL
2019–20 Noel Hoefenmayer Ottawa 67's OHL
2021–22 Nathan Staios Hamilton Bulldogs OHL
2022–23 Olen Zellweger Kamloops Blazers WHL

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

I have brought up Brzustewicz here on multiple occasions. Great pick from the Canucks. High risk, high upside. Has the best OHL stats in the past 25 years after Ryan Ellis (who was good, but could never stay healthy).

That's strange. I just did a search for mentions of Brzustewicz on this site and your name never came up in that search except for this post. Outside of Aarongavey (trade thread), JiriHrdina (trade thread), Sandman (draft), Royal9 (draft), RingofFire (draft), Sureloss (draft) and myself (prospect rankings), Brzustewicz was not mentioned by anyone prior to the trade going down. So in context, Aarongavey and JiriHrdina earn kudos for being the only people to have mentioned Brzustewicz as a possible pickup. Jiri even framed it as "So Kuzmenko+1st+lesser prospect. It's slim pickings".

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Bend it like Bourgeois

Seems about right.
There was a really good in-depth piece on Hunter in the summer by Scott Wheeler noting he wrecked his shoulder, lost a year, and got left behind in the US team. At the time I thought damn the Canucks have found money.
But healthy and crushing the OHL he still could not make the WJC team, even over younger players. There are obviously still some flaws.

How much does the US lean towards their national program players though? The guys that have gone through the USHL and the national training program, the under 18s, etc.? Every country has a bias towards their development programs and the players that go through them.

Brzustewicz's progress is also VERY recent - he likely wasn't high on their lists in the summer, so it's late addition or nothing, for him. And since their team was loaded with offense already, they were probably more concerned with adding Dmen that were more well-rounded.

I don't think being passed by the WJC team is that big of a deal, personally.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Bend it like Bourgeois

Hunter

This is going to be weird for a while. Every time I see "Hunter" I default to "Shinkaruk."

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