Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote, Formenton charged with sexual assault

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by Torture

So are we going to talk about the fact that the Flames said Dube was leaving 'to attend to his mental health'?

Cause oof Flames. Not a great look.

People are already talking about it on the last several pages.

[Vedder]

Originally Posted by Torture

So are we going to talk about the fact that the Flames said Dube was leaving 'to attend to his mental health'?

Cause oof Flames. Not a great look.

Not impressed by this at all if turns out the way it’s looking. Head should roll on that.

[stemit14]

Obviously it’s dangerous to jump to conclusions but it does not look good. If Dube is not one of the players told to surrender to the police, it seems like he or one of his representatives would release some kind of statement to say so. If he’s going through some mental health issues at the moment, I would think letting such speculation happen would not be good for his mental health.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

This last report was by Robyn Doolittle. Westhead was good, but he's not the only one bringing out reporting on this.



The Flames press release was going to generate 'hey we are good guys and care about mental health' and 'Dube is going through something, please support him' responses. If he's part of it - its a bad look.

Would the Flames have known for sure? I doubt they'd be given a heads up at that point if Dube didn't volunteer it.

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by Torture

So are we going to talk about the fact that the Flames said Dube was leaving 'to attend to his mental health'?

Cause oof Flames. Not a great look.

I guess it depends how Dube presented it to the team? If he literally said I am struggling mentally and need to be away that's one thing. If he said I am getting charged for a crime and I need to leave that's another.

[Dan403]

Originally Posted by Torture

So are we going to talk about the fact that the Flames said Dube was leaving 'to attend to his mental health'?

Cause oof Flames. All of a sudden that statement is not a great look.

Stress is absolutely a mental health issue. Flames did nothing wrong.

Even if that stress is about facing charges. *allegedly

[kipperiggy]

Originally Posted by zuluking

The problem with your argument is that the Flames would need Dube to explain why he is suffering from mental health issues. That's not how it works. If he requested mental health leave and this is supported by a letter from an appropriate health professional, then he's on leave. Period. So you can be sure that he really is legitimately on mental health leave.

WHY he is on leave is no one's business but his own. We can speculate, the Flames can speculate, but no decisions can be made regarding granting mental health leave based on speculation. Of course, it looks bad, but the Flames can't start hedging the messages without real information. Let's pretend that he isn't involved, then would we bash the Flames for leading us on with a more ambiguous statement?

I also don't understand why we would start comparing speculated reasons for mental health leave. Do you know the reason behind Kylington's mental health struggles? Do you know if they are "better" reasons? What exactly has he gone through that is being minimized?

Sure, but in this particular instance, there is 0% chance the Flames weren't aware this was a possibility.

Because one is legitimately suffering from a mental health issue and the other is allegedly about to face charges for sexual assault?

They should have said he was on leave and left it at that. That's what all the other clubs are doing.

Edit: see additional post below

[Ashasx]

nm

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by jaydub74

There is certainly something to be said about protecting yourself or "not putting yourself in a such situation", but that doesn't give these five guys the right to take advantage of someone in that situation. Regardless of the "situation" the onus is on the perpetrators to make the proper ethical and legal decision.

There is literally nothing to be said about protecting yourself. Nobody says after a random shooting in the states “you have to protect yourself, why would you go to a movie theatre in a country with so many guns”. Not even sure how one is put in that situation. There is no situation to protect yourself from if everyone else has a moral compass and knows the law.

[zuluking]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

It's odd that for both Kylington and Dube the team put out a communication that it wasn't related to substance abuse. If it turns out that Hart and Dube are both on leave because of this, are they going to have to put out a statement that it is not due to substance abuse, or criminal activity in the future?

On another note, it seems a bit crappy that they do put out the qualifier of not substance abuse, as it further stigmatizes substance abuse as something worse and may prevent others from entering the program.

As far as I know, the "substance abuse" qualifier was made by Pat Steinberg. Doesn't say who provided the clarification.

[cam_calderon]

That's the thing though - not everyone does. In this instance, one thing she could've done is not get blackout drunk. I am not saying this would have made any difference in this instance, and lots of teenagers get blackout drunk weekly, if not daily at college/uni.

Everyone has a difference risk tolerance level. It's risky walking out of your front door.

Maybe she thought sleeping with a champion junior hockey player who was on his way to NHL superstardom was an achievement. Maybe it was purely physical attraction. Another girl may've heard stories of what young men with wildly inflated egos get up to in the bedroom and would stick well clear.

[kipperiggy]

I'm circling back to add - I'm not saying Dube couldn't be suffering mental health issues as a result of this. But in my personal opinion, if he is involved (and it's doubtful the Flames did not know this was a possibility), then they should just said he's on leave and left it at that. My opinion.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Originally Posted by zuluking

As far as I know, the "substance abuse" qualifier was made by Pat Steinberg. Doesn't say who provided the clarification.

Sounds plausible. It was a reply to Steinberg's question, and not an official statement.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

T

The Flames press release was going to generate 'hey we are good guys and care about mental health' and 'Dube is going through something, please support him' responses. If he's part of it - its a bad look.

It's a bad look if people choose to not think deeply about things.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by cam_calderon

That's the thing though - not everyone does. In this instance, one thing she could've done is not get blackout drunk. I am not saying this would have made any difference in this instance, and lots of teenagers get blackout drunk weekly, if not daily at college/uni.

Everyone has a difference risk tolerance level. It's risky walking out of your front door.

Maybe she thought sleeping with a champion junior hockey player who was on his way to NHL superstardom was an achievement. Maybe it was purely physical attraction. Another girl may've heard stories of what young men with wildly inflated egos get up to in the bedroom and would stick well clear.

You really don’t have to fight this fight.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

You really don’t have to fight this fight.

Yeah illl never understand this. Is it Compulsive Devils Advocate disorder or something?

[cam_calderon]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

You really don’t have to fight this fight.

I digress because this isn't the right thread, but there is such a thing as personal responsibility and decision-making.

[FBI]

Boy, Eric and Cory sure were talking up how great it was that the Flames have turned the corner and helping their players with mental health situations.. If Dube is indeed one of the 5, the fact that they even lumped the two situations together with helping Kylington is a really bad look.

[Scornfire]

Originally Posted by cam_calderon

I digress because this isn't the right thread, but there is such a thing as personal responsibility and decision-making.

You want to tell that to all my female friends who have been drugged on innocent nights out where they only planned on having a few drinks?

[cam_calderon]

Put it this way, if anyone here is a parent of a teenage girl I doubt they'd be encouraging them to hang around a known culture of hazing and lack of respect for peers. Being good at hockey brings out the worst in a lot of kids.