[PGT] Oilers 3 Flames 1

[All In Good Time]

Originally Posted by Vedder

I think the point of the post is pretty clear, losing to the oilers should carry extra weight for both the players and fans.

Wasn’t looking for a tree in the forest type discussion based on the literal leaning of the word…..

I think that at the end of last year we learned that winning is not a priority with this group. The priority is, as I’ve said too many times before, fun. The organization doubled down by solidifying the leadership with this position.
I think it’s also one reason why there’s a huge chance that many will be horribly disappointed with the return we get for lindholm. He showed displeasure at the end of last year with the lack of a good time, wants 9 million/year for his next deal and plays uninspired this year.

As a buyer, are you giving up a ton for that when you could simply try to sign him in the offseason? If long term isn’t in your plans, what are you willing to give up for a rental like that? Uninterested with an eye on a big contract in the summer.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

You need enough information to make a confident decision. If they had that - they don't need to try to buy more time.

It's a pretty easy decision
What is the confidence that it will be over turned
What is the situation in the game at the time.

Based on that, what should we do.

I suspect it was a quick call up to the video guy where he said "There is at least one angle where it looks on side. We aren't going to win this. Don't challenge".

Decision made.

I'm not just talking about last night. It's been a pattern. They have let the puck drop multiple times, without doing anything to buy more time to see if they should challenge.

It's possible that they have the fastest video team in the NHL, but that seems like the less likely scenario to me.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I'm not just talking about last night. It's been a pattern. They have let the puck drop multiple times, without doing anything to buy more time to see if they should challenge.

It's possible that they have the fastest video team in the NHL, but that seems like the less likely scenario to me.

How long, on average, does it take other teams to evaluate offsides in video review?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Vedder

I think the point of the post is pretty clear, losing to the oilers should carry extra weight for both the players and fans.

Wasn’t looking for a tree in the forest type discussion based on the literal leaning of the word…..

The phrase is used a lot here, not just with regard to the Oilers. It’s silly.

Anyway, if the rebuild is what people want, get used to losing to the Oilers and most other teams. because that’s how it works.

[Captain Otto]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

It takes time to analyze the play, and look for conclusive proof. Why do you think benches stall as long as they can before making a challenge? Why do you think the Leafs called a time out last game?

But in this case it didn't.

They clearly saw that it wasn't offside or not conclusive enough.

You're arguing for more TIME when they had already watched the video and decided both it was offside and that they didn't need more time. Do I know that for sure? No, but also, the proof is in the pudding.

Getting more time isn't better if more time isn't needed?


Edit - The Leafs needed more time, the Flames didn't. I don't get the argument.


Sent from my SM-S918W using Tapatalk

[D as in David]

Little did I expect when I awoke this morning that CP would provide me with further evidence that time is, in fact, relative.

Edited to re-confirm that Einstein was also correct about E=NG.

[Sylvanfan]

At some point the Flames might want to try scoring some goals on Skinner. Has he ever given up more than 2 against the Flames? It's pretty hard to beat a team as lucky as Edmonton if you're only scoring 1 or 2 goals. Hopefully they burn him out by playing him 65 games and give him some more Dan Cloutier level playoff confidence.

[Barnet Flame]

I increasingly feel like I’m living in bizarro world and reading of people arguing that Huska is a fool for quickly making the correct decision and acting accordingly just fuels my perception.

[Vedder]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

The phrase is used a lot here, not just with regard to the Oilers. It’s silly.

Anyway, if the rebuild is what people want, get used to losing to the Oilers and most other teams. because that’s how it works.

I’m going to set aside your tedious argument about acceptability and point out that the current group of players last beat Edmonton in Oct 2022.

The Flames won’t be relevant again until they’re competitive within their division, including their rival to the North. Maybe a rebuild will bring in a culture and players who hate to lose to the oilers. The way it should be.

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by All In Good Time

I think that at the end of last year we learned that winning is not a priority with this group. The priority is, as I’ve said too many times before, fun. The organization doubled down by solidifying the leadership with this position.
I think it’s also one reason why there’s a huge chance that many will be horribly disappointed with the return we get for lindholm. He showed displeasure at the end of last year with the lack of a good time, wants 9 million/year for his next deal and plays uninspired this year.

As a buyer, are you giving up a ton for that when you could simply try to sign him in the offseason? If long term isn’t in your plans, what are you willing to give up for a rental like that? Uninterested with an eye on a big contract in the summer.

Would suggest that a team that is not having "fun" is also probably not "winning". I'm not sure there's any miserable coaches with miserable staff and miserable players who....win.

The two go somewhat - although not entirely - hand in hand.

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by Vedder

I’m going to set aside your tedious argument about acceptability and point out that the current group of players last beat Edmonton in Oct 2022.

The Flames won’t be relevant again until they’re competitive within their division, including their rival to the North. Maybe a rebuild will bring in a culture and players who hate to lose to the oilers. The way it should be.

Given leadership from both Conroy and Iginla, I can't see how they would build a culture that didn't hate losing to the Oilers. Will, though, take some time.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Vedder

I’m going to set aside your tedious argument about acceptability and point out that the current group of players last beat Edmonton in Oct 2022.

The Flames won’t be relevant again until they’re competitive within their division, including their rival to the North. Maybe a rebuild will bring in a culture and players who hate to lose to the oilers. The way it should be.

So get used to losing to Edmonton (and other teams) until a rebuild is done . You can’t have it both ways. That’s why there were 3 rookies and an AHL 3rd pairing playing Edmonton.

Either losses are “acceptable” or you don’t really want a rebuild.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

At some point the Flames might want to try scoring some goals on Skinner. Has he ever given up more than 2 against the Flames? It's pretty hard to beat a team as lucky as Edmonton if you're only scoring 1 or 2 goals. Hopefully they burn him out by playing him 65 games and give him some more Dan Cloutier level playoff confidence.

Other than the Oilers fluke goal that 99 out of 100 times never goes in, the other thing that annoyed me was how uncreative they were with their chances.

There were way too many shots right at him whether it's his chest or pads hoping for a lucky bounce that only the Oilers were getting.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Inferno

Other than the Oilers fluke goal that 99 out of 100 times never goes in, the other than annoyed me was how uncreative they were with their chances.

There were way too many shots right at him whether it's his chest or pads hoping for a lucky bounce that only the Oilers were getting.

It’s true that they don’t make goalies move near enough. The only cross ice chances that were notable were on Sharangovich’s stick and he blew a couple and had the big stick explosion on the other.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

They'll always choke when it matters (Oilers)

And the division is pretty well our of reach with Vancouver keeping pace with a huge cushion. So yet another McDavid year where they're the bridesmaid and not the bride in the regular season.

Only individual trophies to show for the entire McEra.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by Barnet Flame

I increasingly feel like I’m living in bizarro world and reading of people arguing that Huska is a fool for quickly making the correct decision and acting accordingly just fuels my perception.

And not wasting his timeout which he ended up using with an empty net in a 1 goal hockey game & offensive zone face-off.
The exact type of situation he should be saving the timeout for.

I wonder if the Flames scored and tied the game there, if the same people would still be arguing he should have used the timeout on the offside challenge still.

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by Inferno

Other than the Oilers fluke goal that 99 out of 100 times never goes in, the other than annoyed me was how uncreative they were with their chances.

There were way too many shots right at him whether it's his chest or pads hoping for a lucky bounce that only the Oilers were getting.

Yup reminds me of Woodcroft’s comments last year re lots of low quality, low percentage shots.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Can't make the goalie move when they're hanging around the outside and allergic to the slot area or goal mouth.

Why are we afraid of Edmonton defenders? Go to the dangerous areas. If they're being chippy maybe you get a PP or two out of it.

It doesn't make sense to me. Such a docile approach to trying to beat a team. Meanwhile they have no issue skating to dangerous areas against most other teams.

Need to be more disrespectful of the oilers. Treat them like the shams they are, and chances are the result will reflect that.

Players always talk about just focusing on their own game, but every time they face the oilers it's evident that they're playing in reaction to them

[All In Good Time]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

Would suggest that a team that is not having "fun" is also probably not "winning". I'm not sure there's any miserable coaches with miserable staff and miserable players who....win.

The two go somewhat - although not entirely - hand in hand.

Professional sports has a long and storied history of miserable coaches who win.
But
The point is, this group made their feelings known, got their wishes in spades and followed that up with ridiculous contract demands and underwhelming effort.

[Ziggy Lidstrom]

The flames were decent considering their heart just got listed on the IR. Pospisil ascending to the big club was the spark that has turned around these guys. He’s just such a dog on a bone out there.

Lindholm has little heart. Mangiapane ditto. Hanifin ditto.

Lindholm is the biggest head-scratcher. He’s costing himself millions of dollars. He looked slow and uncreative. Not inspiring assessments about your number one center.

Tbh that was one of the best games I have seen 97 play defensively. He was physical, and he was tenacious on the back check. The times he used his speed to disrupt one of our chances or out right end it by purloining the puck were noticeable. It seems like he’s buying into being a more complete player.


The flames looked like they have all year: they are hard working and stay in the guts of the game most nights. Their PK was good. Their 5v5 play outside of the first 15 mins and last 5 mins was quite sound.

The PP is missing a big dog out there. That broken stick by shark was probably a goal of it hits the net with his shot prowess. Sadly flames couldn’t make life miserable in the slot for the oilers. This has been a problem for some time vs teams that collapse well and box out.

Oilers are in the heads of the flames holdovers and missing a guy like Pospisil hurts a lot. Always something injury related that sees we don’t bring our best to play the Coil.


The good:


Dan Vladar looks like a legit 1A goaltender in this league. Markstrom is more valuable and we should trade him. Vladar would be good with wolf as a tandem until we are ready to compete agai , then move vladar and let wolf lead the pack.

Dan made some massive saves and the second goal wasn’t his fault. The first goal was tough to due to poor coverage which couldn’t contain McLeod.

Tanev is a warrior out there. He’s so fricken tough and dependable. He never wanes and his focus is always laser concentrated. He’s a valuable player that makes up for a lot of other defensive deficiencies. At his contract he’s a steal for what he gives you.

Mackenzie Weegar is another warrior. That play where he jumped to steal the puck and transitioned to the 3-1 was amazing. Keep him over Anderson imo.


Goalman struggled a bit aside from the sauce he hooked Mack up with. Leading the rush and gaining the zone isn’t his strength. Him, backs and mangiapane had an off night. Maybe coronato should play in the Blake and Backs line. Mangiapane needs to sit. Poor plays are becoming the trend with this guy.


Kadri looked like he’s trying to keep the same approach despite losing his dog on a bone winger in Pospisil. That line got pushed around a lot. Not surprised. Coronato isn’t ready to play at this level yet and Zary is still finding his way a bit.

Zary looked good at times and his poise with the puck is a valuable skill. Hes gotta improve his first three step acceleration though if he wants to be a more dependable 200 ft player. Prime time promise though.

Huberdeau looked lost outside f a couple good passes but he isn’t fast enough to be a threat leading the rush on this team vs a contender like the oilers. He did look ok on the PPs making some decent no look cross ice passes but his penchant to overextend his hands and make a blind spin pass is a major weakness and momentum killer.

Sharky looked ok but a blown stick tanks his contributions which were in line with his advanced metrics. He doesn’t drive play nor sustain possession.


Lindholm is a good face off man and definitely responsible in his own zone but he has so little offensive confidence. I’m gonna stuck to my guns and say this coaching staff hasn’t scouted what made him successful, positioning wise, when he had JG, SM and MT on his lines. So many of his goals were from the right wing or right circle with him as the bumper. I almost never see that schemed. It’s costing him a lot of money and us a good amount of assets. He probably goes off once he gets to a new team though.


AJ Greer is found money and super physical. I loved his energy.

Klapka can keep up with the play surprisingly well. He could be a valuable guy if he keeps being physical and pugnacious. Put him on Zary and kadris line next. He has some underrated hands but if he can consistently bring the truculence and nasty we have another farm team success story.

Gilbert is good for what he’s paid and his physicality. It makes up for the odd bad read.


The bad:


Hanifin is so mercurial and inconsistent. He saved one chance by sirectimg the puck out of danger but he struggled against a very good forecheck late and looked pretty invisible offensively. His defensive game is somewhat passive. I’d move him.


Ruzicka is not a pro. He doesn’t have the focus nor the confidence. He doesn’t use his body effectively enough. He’s not good enough to be a PO threat only either. Sadly his motor questions are here to stay and I think he is moved somewhere. Maybe another GM sees the size and skills and takes a chance on him.


Anderson had a bad game. Looked slow and displayed tunnel vision too often. Not nearly enough deception in his game. No shot fakes , zero no look passes and his lack of speed sealed the game. If someone knocks your socks off I’d move him.


Mangiapane has too often been in the bad side of the register these last two years. He scored his goals that one year with a first line ahead of him that gave him room he doesn’t currently enjoy. I’d market that to a team with a good first line and hope they bite.

Coronato, is just a tad behind the play and isn’t physical enough to earn ice at this level. He looks overmatched again. Send him down and bring him back up after the TDL exodus. Give Klapka more opportunities.

Osterle isn’t bad but he brings very little as far as NhL skills go. I’d bring up disimone rather at least he looks to have some offensive chops from the 6th dman position.


Rough way to lose on that goal but the flames were lucky behind some good goaltending to be in that game.


Good effort but team is still mushy middle. Conroy knows this. We need more youth that hates to lose. Too many holdovers from the previous disappointing years will be moved.

GFG