2023/2024 Trade Rumors and Speculation Thread

[Poe969]

Kadri isn't moving, I also doubt a lot of teams want him. Keep Kadri and trade Coleman.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Not sure about this.

He's at 1.86 points / 60 in a Calgary uniform. This year that would be forward #150 in points / 60.

His salary at $4.9M is $0.4M above the 150th highest paid forward at $4.5M

Add in the shut down role, the fact that he kills penalties, and his leadership qualities and he's pretty much paid what he should be paid.

That's why I said contenders. Average salaries don't mean much, they need guys on good to great deals.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by Sec214

Shirtless and it’s a deal

It has to be shirtless because I don't think Thornton ever got to rock out....

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Saqe

That's why I said contenders. Average salaries don't mean much, they need guys on good to great deals.

Eh, yes and no. They need guys on good to great deals, but it just means they need to be getting a ton of value out of some contracts on their roster, not every one.

That doesn’t mean Coleman is overpaid nor does it mean a contender can’t carry contracts like his. Just means they’d need other guys (like stars on ELCs or guys like Coleman who bring a ton more than the salary suggests like he did in Tampa) to provide that value-over-contract.

I think you could probably go through every contender and more often than not you’d find a guy like Coleman.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Eh, yes and no. They need guys on good to great deals, but it just means they need to be getting a ton of value out of some contracts on their roster, not every one.

That doesn’t mean Coleman is overpaid nor does it mean a contender can’t carry contracts like his. Just means they’d need other guys (like stars on ELCs or guys like Coleman who bring a ton more than the salary suggests like he did in Tampa) to provide that value-over-contract.

I think you could probably go through every contender and more often than not you’d find a guy like Coleman.

It’s one thing to already have a guy like that but it’s another thing to add a new guy with that salary, especially with 3 more years to go.

[Rutuu]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Not sure about this.

He's at 1.86 points / 60 in a Calgary uniform. This year that would be forward #150 in points / 60.

His salary at $4.9M is $0.4M above the 150th highest paid forward at $4.5M

Add in the shut down role, the fact that he kills penalties, and his leadership qualities and he's pretty much paid what he should be paid.

If we look at him over his tenure, and not the one season where he's "earning it", he's more like the 250th forward (using pts/gm), and that puts him in the $2m range if we're paying full freight for him. Defense and intangibles maybe increase that value, but let's not discount the fact that he's blocking a spot in the line up that a younger (cheaper) player with upside could emerge into, and we could spend the extra cap space else where.

It's likely a moot point, as no one is taking the guy with the term left...but if they did, I'd be estatic.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

It’s one thing to already have a guy like that but it’s another thing to add a new guy with that salary, especially with 3 more years to go.

So if you don’t have that player, how do you get him? Or are you better off not trying to get him at all?

You’ve either drafted him, or you pay through the nose in a trade, or free agency. And in this case, as has been presented, the Flames aren’t particularly overpaying the player anyway.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by TOfan

So if you don’t have that player, how do you get him? Or are you better off not trying to get him at all?

You’ve either drafted him, or you pay through the nose in a trade, or free agency. And in this case, as has been presented, the Flames aren’t particularly overpaying the player anyway.

I am not complaining about Coleman. I think he is one of Treliving’s better deal. He fully earns his salary

I am just saying it’s hard to trade him because of his contract unless you get a similar contract back

[Bonded]

Yeah, I’d rather the Flames just ride out Coleman’s contract unless there is some good value coming back. They’ll be swimming in cap space over the next three seasons.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

I am not complaining about Coleman. I think he is one of Treliving’s better deal. He fully earns his salary

I am just saying it’s hard to trade him because of his contract unless you get a similar contract back

Right now...but that might open up in the offseason.

To me he's an offseason trade because I think with a rising cap his salary becomes a lot easier to fit in.

Not a guy they should think about retaining on for 3 seasons to move though IMO, unless some team is giving you an absolute overpayment.

[RobotTalk]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Back when Game of Thrones was good, a character begged Robb Stark not to hang him for murdering two Lannister hostages because he only watched the door.

Robb ordered him to be hung last, so he could watch the others die.

I agree with Lord Stark.

Not to derail, but he was the King in the North, ergo King Stark and not Lord Stark, when he did that.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by RobotTalk

Not to derail, but he was the King in the North, ergo King Stark and not Lord Stark, when he did that.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Rutuu

If we look at him over his tenure, and not the one season where he's "earning it", he's more like the 250th forward (using pts/gm), and that puts him in the $2m range if we're paying full freight for him. Defense and intangibles maybe increase that value, but let's not discount the fact that he's blocking a spot in the line up that a younger (cheaper) player with upside could emerge into, and we could spend the extra cap space else where.

It's likely a moot point, as no one is taking the guy with the term left...but if they did, I'd be estatic.

I think Bingo did calculate his points over his entire tenure. You do have a point though, Coleman's production at even strength shows him as a slightly better light production-wise.

If we take only the players around Coleman's cap-hit $4.5-5.5M and sort them by PPG here's what we get:
2023-24 Coleman comes at 12th out of 55 forwards with 0.75PPG
2022-23 Coleman was 52nd out of 58 with 0.46PPG
2021-22 Coleman was 50th out of 55 with 0.41PPG

Granted that Coleman is barely used on the PP, and he was a force at even strength, especially when looking at xG%, CF% etc. That said a convincing case can be made about him being overpaid with respect to his offensive contributions in the first 2 years.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by RobotTalk

Not to derail, but he was the King in the North, ergo King Stark and not Lord Stark, when he did that.

King Robb, first of his name (I think). For some reason Kings go by first name only.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Rutuu

If we look at him over his tenure, and not the one season where he's "earning it", he's more like the 250th forward (using pts/gm), and that puts him in the $2m range if we're paying full freight for him. Defense and intangibles maybe increase that value, but let's not discount the fact that he's blocking a spot in the line up that a younger (cheaper) player with upside could emerge into, and we could spend the extra cap space else where.

It's likely a moot point, as no one is taking the guy with the term left...but if they did, I'd be estatic.

I used his whole time in Calgary for the points / 60, not just this year.

So back to what I said ... earning it.

But I do get what you're saying, but when the guy provides a lot of additional intangibles you have to put a value on it.

He likely has altered a young player or two in how they approach things etc.

[CFO]

Flames should be focused on signing hanafin.


Trade Lindholm, Dube, tanev this year. Should net some good future assets.

Markstrom near deadline if someone wants to go hard for playoffs. Or next year he is traded.

Try and use capspace to get a player like Marner on the cheap. Reverse Phaneuf trade.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by CFO

Flames should be focused on signing hanafin.


Trade Lindholm, Dube, tanev this year. Should net some good future assets.

Markstrom near deadline if someone wants to go hard for playoffs. Or next year he is traded.

Try and use capspace to get a player like Marner on the cheap. Reverse Phaneuf trade.

Or… what if we didn’t do that, and instead got our own 18 year old franchise players at the top of the draft like every single Stanley cup champion since 2009, save for the best-run organization in hockey.

[Rutuu]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I used his whole time in Calgary for the points / 60, not just this year.

So back to what I said ... earning it.

But I do get what you're saying, but when the guy provides a lot of additional intangibles you have to put a value on it.

He likely has altered a young player or two in how they approach things etc.

Hmmm...opens up an interesting debate option. If his pts / 60 are so good, then has he not been getting enough minutes and situations from the coaches. Because ultimately the past 3yrs we're paying $4.9m AAV for 30 something points a season. If he's also preventing 20+ goals a season over an average player in the same spot then he's paid what he's worth, but I don't see that in the statistics.

Also when you said alter a young players path...I read that as blocking a spot, not "teaching them how to be a pro".

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by CFO

Flames should be focused on signing hanafin.


Trade Lindholm, Dube, tanev this year. Should net some good future assets.

Markstrom near deadline if someone wants to go hard for playoffs. Or next year he is traded.

Try and use capspace to get a player like Marner on the cheap. Reverse Phaneuf trade.

Marner would never approve a trade to Calgary.

Plus it would not be on the cheap.

[bluejays]

I just think anyone on the roster should be available for trade. Especially if you are signed long term. If you have a chance to get out of a Huberdeau or Kadri contract, great. Great that one or both may be providing leadership today but at that cost over the long term? I'd gladly find another leadership filler with lesser pay. Same with other like Markstrom or Coleman. In the latter two's situation, with a manageable amount of years remaining I suppose it's no big deal to hold them but if someone offers a nice deal, why not? Huberdeau or Kadri's contracts simply won't age well. Happy to get out from under them for a low price if anyone wants to take the bait.