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Old 01-02-2024, 11:52 AM   #15041
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Agreed. I don’t recall the last time a goaltender was traded for a return of that level. I know there are several teams this year that are desperate for goaltending so maybe this year will be different. A year ago, the flames would have had to provide a first round pick for any team to take on Markstrom’s contract… yet now it sounds like the flames could actually get assets back for him. It’s wild what a difference a year can make.
Yeah, Fleury was traded for a 1st but it was basically a 2nd unless he led the Wild to a cup. That’s the only way Markstrom is getting a 1st in my opinion
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Old 01-02-2024, 11:55 AM   #15042
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Poll question: would you trade Markstrom to the devils for a first and 2 2nd round picks?
Maybe (is it a trick question?)

Hell yes if it’s serious
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Old 01-02-2024, 12:01 PM   #15043
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I am not having it both ways, the Flames did not have near the success the Pens and Captials had, didn't have near the talent of those teams either.

You can argue what you like but you would be 100% wrong to try and do so.

But Gaudreau and Tkachuk didn't stay that is the main point. Even if they did no reason to think this team was doing anything anyways.
Okay, so which teams this year will win and which will ‘disappoint’? Go ahead, let us know.

In a competitive environment, you put your best foot forward and try to compete. I’d bet that if you continually looked at your team and said ‘not good enough’ you would never get anywhere. You would be in a perpetual rebuild, which some here would probably enjoy. The Flames were competitive, tried to remain competitive, and ended up in a rebuild anyway, which I think is what you’re clamouring for. They gave it a shot and if Sutter hadn’t lost the room or Markstrom not been as bad as he was, things could have gone differently.

Even the highly regarded AGM of the Carolina Hurricanes, who we’ve read for years the Flames should emulate, Eric Tulsky, has said the Hurricanes equate a playoff series to be a coin flip. Maybe they’re just as dumb as the Flames. Or maybe you’re smarter than all of them, if that’s what you want to tell yourself.

If Markstrom plays to his capabilities vs the Oilers in 22, who knows what happens. Sounds like you see things in a ‘100%’ world but, again, it’s not that simple.
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Old 01-02-2024, 12:04 PM   #15044
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Last years team playing at a collective career average likely would have been top 3 in the division.

Treliving took a swing and missed. But I don't think ANYONE predicted the NHL's second leading scorer and previous years Vezina candidate to turn into a pumpkin overnight. Kadri I can see from the number of games he played, but anyone who foresaw what happened last year should take me to Vegas.
No casual fan could have predicted Huberdeau. Good professional may have predicted how he would fit on the team. But nobody predicted he went from 115 to 50

Markstrom had an all time choke job against the Oilers. It’s not far fetched that he couldn’t recover.
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Old 01-02-2024, 12:07 PM   #15045
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Okay, so which teams this year will win and which will ‘disappoint’? Go ahead, let us know.

In a competitive environment, you put your best foot forward and try to compete. I’d bet that if you continually looked at your team and said ‘not good enough’ you would never get anywhere. You would be in a perpetual rebuild, which some here would probably enjoy. The Flames were competitive, tried to remain competitive, and ended up in a rebuild anyway, which I think is what you’re clamouring for. They gave it a shot and if Sutter hadn’t lost the room or Markstrom not been as bad as he was, things could have gone differently.

Even the highly regarded AGM of the Carolina Hurricanes, who we’ve read for years the Flames should emulate, Eric Tulsky, has said the Hurricanes equate a playoff series to be a coin flip. Maybe they’re just as dumb as the Flames. Or maybe you’re smarter than all of them, if that’s what you want to tell yourself.

If Markstrom plays to his capabilities vs the Oilers in 22, who knows what happens. Sounds like you see things in a ‘100%’ world but, again, it’s not that simple.
You get a pass when you win some times. The Canes did that.


Treliving won nothing in 10 years in the playoffs except a couple 1st rounds.

All arguments for him are flawed
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Old 01-02-2024, 12:12 PM   #15046
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You get a pass when you win some times. The Canes did that.


Treliving won nothing in 10 years in the playoffs except a couple 1st rounds.

All arguments for him are flawed
Do do you think Hurricane fans are saying ‘this is great’ or ‘why can’t these guys get over the hump and win?’

I bet it’s the latter.
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Old 01-02-2024, 12:17 PM   #15047
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Do do you think Hurricane fans are saying ‘this is great’ or ‘why can’t these guys get over the hump and win?’

I bet it’s the latter.
Unless The Spurs was a fan.

It would be misery every day and everyone sucks.
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Old 01-02-2024, 12:28 PM   #15048
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It's really too bad the NHL banned trades.
It's really too bad we have to endure spurs gumming up every thread with his bs. Can't we shadow ban him at least? Let him rant to nothing.
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Old 01-02-2024, 12:30 PM   #15049
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It's really too bad we have to endure spurs gumming up every thread with his bs. Can't we shadow ban him at least? Let him rant to nothing.
Spurs got a warning and surprisingly seems to have heeded it.
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Old 01-02-2024, 12:33 PM   #15050
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The Leafs are sniffing around Vladar again but don't like the asking price still.
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Old 01-02-2024, 12:35 PM   #15051
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Okay, so which teams this year will win and which will ‘disappoint’? Go ahead, let us know.

In a competitive environment, you put your best foot forward and try to compete. I’d bet that if you continually looked at your team and said ‘not good enough’ you would never get anywhere. You would be in a perpetual rebuild, which some here would probably enjoy. The Flames were competitive, tried to remain competitive, and ended up in a rebuild anyway, which I think is what you’re clamouring for. They gave it a shot and if Sutter hadn’t lost the room or Markstrom not been as bad as he was, things could have gone differently.

Even the highly regarded AGM of the Carolina Hurricanes, who we’ve read for years the Flames should emulate, Eric Tulsky, has said the Hurricanes equate a playoff series to be a coin flip. Maybe they’re just as dumb as the Flames. Or maybe you’re smarter than all of them, if that’s what you want to tell yourself.

If Markstrom plays to his capabilities vs the Oilers in 22, who knows what happens. Sounds like you see things in a ‘100%’ world but, again, it’s not that simple.
Chicago, SJ, Seattle, Columbus will be bad. I think most people would predict that before the season.

Colorado, Dallas, Boston, Carolina, Vegas will be good. Again most people would predict that before the season.

I never suggested we can pick the winner of the Cup every year but we can make a small list of teams that are likely to win it every year and be correct 95% of the time.

Eric Tulsky saying things for the media to take pressure off his team doesn't prove much at all.
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Old 01-02-2024, 12:37 PM   #15052
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The Leafs are sniffing around Vladar again but don't like the asking price still.
What's the roughly the asking price?
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Old 01-02-2024, 12:38 PM   #15053
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Originally Posted by TOfan View Post
In a competitive environment, you put your best foot forward and try to compete. I’d bet that if you continually looked at your team and said ‘not good enough’ you would never get anywhere. You would be in a perpetual rebuild, which some here would probably enjoy. The Flames were competitive, tried to remain competitive, and ended up in a rebuild anyway, which I think is what you’re clamouring for. They gave it a shot and if Sutter hadn’t lost the room or Markstrom not been as bad as he was, things could have gone differently.

Even the highly regarded AGM of the Carolina Hurricanes, who we’ve read for years the Flames should emulate, Eric Tulsky, has said the Hurricanes equate a playoff series to be a coin flip. Maybe they’re just as dumb as the Flames. Or maybe you’re smarter than all of them, if that’s what you want to tell yourself.
Yup. Look at Tampa Bay. Missed the playoffs, lost in the third round, and then got swept in the first round by Columbus. Ran virtually the same team back (Cooper as coach, with Vasilevsky, Stamkos, Kucherov, Hedman, Point, etc) and won back to back cups directly after.

It’s easy to say it was all too predictable, but the actual reality of it is that it wasn’t. Progression isn’t linear, and there isn’t a single honest person on Earth who could have looked at the Flames’ team that lost in the second round and predicted they never would have won anything if they retained Gaudreau and Tkachuk. Even swapping those two and Monahan for Huberdeau, Weegar, and Kadri looked like a team that still had the horses to compete. If someone had suggested that Tampa should have rebuilt after getting swept by Columbus, they’d be laughed out of the room, because hindsight works both ways.

It’s similar to the perception of individual players. When guys contribute to cup winning teams, their reputation changes. There is no shortage of guys (Kessel, O’Reilly, Ovechkin, Kadri) that had a reputation of not being able to “get it done” in the playoffs, until they proved that reputation wrong, and people scrambled to pretend they never had those reputations in the first place. And there is the other side, the middling guys who build a reputation that’s larger than their skill level because they were cup champions.

Hindsight is easy. It’s lazy. Anyone who knows anything about hockey understands the concept of bounces and how much luck and timing factors into everything.
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Old 01-02-2024, 12:38 PM   #15054
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What's the roughly the asking price?
I don't know those details, wish I did.
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Old 01-02-2024, 12:40 PM   #15055
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Is Vladar that much of an upgrade over Martin Jones?
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Thats why Flames fans make ideal Star Trek fans. We've really been taught to embrace the self-loathing and extreme criticism.
Check out The Pod-Wraiths: A Star Trek Deep Space Nine Podcast
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Old 01-02-2024, 12:40 PM   #15056
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The Leafs are sniffing around Vladar again but don't like the asking price still.
It's wild that they come back, even more desperate to bolster their depth in goal, and are still wary of the asking price, as if they were expecting the price to go down.
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k im just not going to respond to your #### anymore because i have better things to do like #### my model girlfriend rather then try to convince people like you of commonly held hockey knowledge.
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Old 01-02-2024, 12:41 PM   #15057
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The Leafs are sniffing around Vladar again but don't like the asking price still.
Interesting. Been wondering if a Vladar-Tanev deal could make sense.
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Old 01-02-2024, 12:42 PM   #15058
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Interesting. Been wondering if a Vladar-Tanev deal could make sense.
Their first would have to be a part, and a top prospect because we would likely have to take Samsonov back
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Old 01-02-2024, 12:43 PM   #15059
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I don't know those details, wish I did.
Just going by picks the Leafs are probably bidding a 3rd or 4th and Conroy wants a second but the Leafs are out of those for three years. Only way a Flames player goes to Leafs is a strong market and they send over a 1st for Tanev.
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Old 01-02-2024, 12:47 PM   #15060
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Is Vladar that much of an upgrade over Martin Jones?
I don't think so but there seems to be people out there that think Vladar has more to offer than what he has shown.

I think he is what he is and that is a mediocre back-up but Jones definitely is what he is and isn't getting any better. With the trade for him and contract he gave him Treliving is likely one of those that thinks Vladar has room to grow.
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