2023/2024 Trade Rumors and Speculation Thread

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Spurs

There is nothing made up people preferred the Necas deal over the Florida deal, that is true.

So the idea that nobody would take another deal over the Florida deal is completely false.

You said at the time, which is not true.

No one knew the details until a bit after.

Stop making things up and ruining every thread.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

You said at the time, which is not true.

No one knew the details until a bit after.

Stop making things up and ruining every thread.

Yes at the time they heard the two offers. Not now that they have seen how Hubredeau has played.

Nothing is getting made up other than the person saying everyone takes the Florida deal over all others, that is not true at all.

Stop worrying about your pathetic personal dislike with me and talk about what is actually being discussed. Plenty of people prefer the Carolina deal over the Florida deal before a game was played for any player in the deal. You can try to lie about that because you can't handle the truth but that doesn't change what actually happened.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Spurs

Where did I say sportwriters and commentators said it was a bad move? They get things wrong all the time.

Yes it was clear as day that the team should rebuild, that we didn't have the players to compete. Anyone who thought different was fooling themselves or just plain stupid.

One again, Spurs with the "only I know the facts and truth and everyone else is stupid" take.

[Bingo]

Things didn't work out.

Most of the hockey world thought the Flames did very well in a bad situation with the Tkachuk trade including a large majority on this site.

A lot of hindsight jockeying in this discussion.

Having said that, I'm with those that think they had a huge opportunity with the trade and then trade both Huberdeau and Weegar right after. I think that would have saved them a lot of pain with the other UFAs on the horizon.

But would I expect that from most teams? Not really. You don't see many tear downs happening before they're necessary, and that would have been pretty bold (potentially not even allowed from ownership)

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Spurs

That is not true at all, many people preferred the rumoured Necas deal from Carolina over Florida at the time, not just with hindsight.

Show your work. It may be hard since no one knew the Carolina offer "at the time".

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

One again, Spurs with the "only I know the facts and truth and everyone else is stupid" take.

Nope this is far from me only knowing the facts, many others know it and have talked about it here many times.

Are you really pretending nobody has debated the Necas vs. Florida deal before? It has happened in this very thread recently, LOL

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Spurs

Nope this is far from me only knowing the facts, many others know it and have talked about it here many times.

Are you really pretending nobody has debated the Necas vs. Florida deal before? It has happened in this very thread recently, LOL

Dude, "debated" doesn't mean "clear as day". In fact, it means the opposite.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Dude, "debated" doesn't mean "clear as day". In fact, it means the opposite.

What are you talking about? My clear as day comment was not in regard to the Carolina vs Florida deal.

[PepsiFree]

The rumoured Necas deal was only rumoured within the last year, so nobody could have preferred it at the time.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Spurs

I am saying that at the time of the trade you could see that the Flames were not good enough to compete and that the Hubredeau/Weegar additions were not going to change that.

It was a team that needed a rebuild and having a piece like Tkachuk would have been the perfect piece to start that process.

But to answer your question in general I think that in many cases it is easy to predict teams success year to year and with some it is not easy. Not a blanket answer for every single team, every single year.

It was easy to see the Flames needed a rebuild? Well, That was and is a pretty easy thing to say both say then and now. Rebuilding is a common and fashionable want for fans of most teams. ‘This isn’t working, so start over’.

It’s important to remember the Flames just came off their second (?) best regular season ever and lost, disappointingly, in the second round. They had an experienced HC who won the Jack Adam’s and their goalie finished second in Vezina voting. There was good reason to believe they could have stayed competitive. It was not clear or easy that they needed a rebuild and I strongly doubt that ownership would have purposefully gone in that direction.

The conversation among hockey journalists headed into the season was ‘are the Flames better this year than they were last?’ The Athletic had them going to the cup finals. Not many reputable journalists/reporters who cover hockey for a living made the prediction that the Flames season would unfold the way it did. On a related note, I’ll challenge you to find one journalist/reprter/blogger/hockey executive or scout who said Huberdeau would have the single largest drop in points one year to the next.

Saying a team should rebuild is easy. You could easily make that argument for most teams in the league, and I’d bet there are no shortage of fans saying the same things about their teams as we often see stated here. It’s a lazy and mostly uniformed take in most instances.

In any event it’s largely moot because the Flames are rebuilding. So the discussion is probably now shifting from should the Flames rebuild to how should the Flames rebuild, which is yet another futile argument posed by those who don’t really have any skin in the game.

[Shazam]

It's really too bad the NHL banned trades.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by TOfan

It was easy to see the Flames needed a rebuild? Well, That was and is a pretty easy thing to say both say then and now. Rebuilding is a common and fashionable want for fans of most teams. ‘This isn’t working, so start over’.

It’s important to remember the Flames just came off their second (?) best regular season ever and lost, disappointingly, in the second round. They had an experienced HC who won the Jack Adam’s and their goalie finished second in Vezina voting. There was good reason to believe they could have stayed competitive. It was not clear or easy that they needed a rebuild and I strongly doubt that ownership would have purposefully gone in that direction.

The conversation among hockey journalists headed into the season was ‘are the Flames better this year than they were last?’ The Athletic had them going to the cup finals. Not many reputable journalists/reporters who cover hockey for a living made the prediction that the Flames season would unfold the way it did. On a related note, I’ll challenge you to find one journalist/reprter/blogger/hockey executive or scout who said Huberdeau would have the single largest drop in points one year to the next.

Saying a team should rebuild is easy. You could easily make that argument for most teams in the league, and I’d bet there are no shortage of fans saying the same things about their teams as we often see stated here. It’s a lazy and mostly uniformed take in most instances.

In any event it’s largely moot because the Flames are rebuilding. So the discussion is probably now shifting from should the Flames rebuild to how should the Flames rebuild, which is yet another futile argument posed by this who don’t really have any skin in the game.

They also lost their two best players, I think that is a key part of it as well. Even with those two players we saw that the team wasn't good enough to compete with the top teams and didn't have a path to get there.

And saying that saying a rebuild is easy is true, I think the way the NHL is set up that rebuild is often better than continuing on in mediocrity. Again I am not claiming to have some sort of insider or special knowledge here so the rebuild being the best option for many situations is why it was so clear.

Don't have skin in the game? Are you saying fans shouldn't comment on how the team rebuilds because they don't have skin in the game? or did I misread that last part?

[Roof-Daddy]

Flames go into last season with a very strong team on paper and a Jack Adams winning coach with multiple cups wins as well.

Goalie goes from 2nd in vezina voting to worst save percentage in the league among starters and their star forward goes from 115 points to 50 points and the Flames barely miss the playoffs.

All of a sudden a bunch of posters around here turn into kreskin with 20/20 hindsight

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Spurs

What are you talking about? My clear as day comment was not in regard to the Carolina vs Florida deal.

It was in regard to the same topic - rebuild versus getting star players in a trade.

Basically no one's opinion that getting a 114 point player, an top pairing Dman and a first rounder and Schwindt was a good trade versus a "rebuild" was valid because it was "clear as day" that was a mistake.

Clear as day except to most people who commented on it.

[butterfly]

The Florida deal was easily better for the Flames. The problems started with what they did after it.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Spurs

They also lost their two best players,

Lost their two best players but replaced one with someone who had just as many points. Kadri wasn't an even replacement for Tkachuk but was still better than replacing him with nobody. Then they added another defenseman in Weegar.

After the trade and even more so after the Kadri signing the media said that they may not win the Pacific again but that they should be able to contend for one of the 2-3 spots.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

It was in regard to the same topic - rebuild versus getting star players in a trade.

Basically no one's opinion that getting a 114 point player, an top pairing Dman and a first rounder and Schwindt was a good trade versus a "rebuild" was valid because it was "clear as day" that was a mistake.

Clear as day except to most people who commented on it.

Nope that is not how it went.

I said it was clear as day we needed a rebuild.

Then is response to a post that said everybody would take the Florida deal I pointed out the fact that people would have taken the Carolina deal over that deal and not with the hindsight about how each played but because they liked that deal better.

Now because some pathetic posters can't just talk hockey and let their personal feelings get in the way what is a very simple, comment gets blown out of proporton.

As I said earlier if you think that every fan would take the Florida deal over the Carolina deal you are fooling yourself. That isn't crazy it is just a fact.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by Inferno

Lost their two best players but replaced one with someone who had just as many points. Kadri wasn't an even replacement for Tkachuk but was still better than replacing him with nobody. Then they added another defenseman in Weegar.

After the trade and even more so after the Kadri signing the media said that they may not win the Pacific again but that they should be able to contend for one of the 2-3 spots.

They replaced one player on a team that wasn't good enough, that doesn't make a team that is ready to compete. It was clear as day at the time and the proof is in the results after the fact.

The media being idiots and dead wrong doesn't change reality. These are the same guys that largely picked the Oilers to get to or even win the Cup this year.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Spurs

Nope that is not how it went.

I said it was clear as day we needed a rebuild.

Then is response to a post that said everybody would take the Florida deal I pointed out the fact that people would have taken the Carolina deal over that deal and not with the hindsight about how each played but because they liked that deal better.

Now because some pathetic posters can't just talk hockey and let their personal feelings get in the way what is a very simple, comment gets blown out of proporton.

As I said earlier if you think that every fan would take the Florida deal over the Carolina deal you are fooling yourself. That isn't crazy it is just a fact.

Not to a majority of people commenting on the trade. I guess they didn't see something that was "clear as day".

[Ped]

Originally Posted by Saqe

This is a pretty bad take. Tkachuk already showed he can be a star player in Florida, he had a major injury and is clearly playing differently now as has been mentioned by many experts. So either he decided to change his game after consecutive 100 point seasons or he's still recovering. He's by far the best player in that deal.

Sure but everything went right for FLA in the playoffs and they still didn't win the Cup. Clearly Huberdeau decided to change his game after all his success too, right?

For the record, the trade was good, what happened after was not (they should have flipped them and rebuilt, but that's over and done with) and most likely Tkachuk is the best player going forward and its not close. But it's also not guaranteed.


And whatever the reason, the best player in that deal this year is Weegar. That's not likely true going forward, which is why I specifically said this year.