Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

I'd be curious where someone lives who feels they don't have reasonable access to a legal store for cannabis. I can't imagine anyone in Calgary feels that way - those places are everywhere.

Probably anyone who doesn't live in or near a major urban center, for one.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Originally Posted by KelVarnsen

Wtf is “The Democracy Fund”?

Newspeak for Theocracy Fund.

[stazzy33]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

UCP be like.

Micro Plastics in our blood, no problem.
Vaccines, no thanks.

Microplastics contain oil ergo they are fighting the feds... or something like that.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Probably anyone who doesn't live in or near a major urban center, for one.

OK, but if you live in the middle of nowhere I'd expect you'd have to drive for everything, including weed (whether it was legal or illegal). Does Terry deliver to your farm? There's a cannabis store in Westlock, population 5,100. If you live somewhere smaller than that you're getting in your vehicle to buy everything.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by rubecube

No one said it would completely eliminate the black market for pot. People said it would reduce black market sales and the revenue pot provided for organized crime.

Actually, some people did say there wouldn’t be a black market after legalization. (“Terry will be out of business…” etc.) Of course legalization was going to reduce the black market. The question was how much. It turns out by about half. A lot less than what a lot people assumed.

It’s okay to admit that sometimes I’m right

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

I'd be curious where someone lives who feels they don't have reasonable access to a legal store for cannabis. I can't imagine anyone in Calgary feels that way - those places are everywhere.

It’s not access, it’s cost. Heavy users can get steeply discounted - and often stronger - weed from illicit sources.

[Fuzz]

The biggest reason is also the most obvious, a capitalistic one. It's cheaper. The retail market can't compete with a 25% disability off the top on taxes. Greedy governments only have themselves to blame for the continued strength of the black market. They also have the solution.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

It’s not access, it’s cost. Heavy users can get steeply discounted - and often stronger - weed from illicit sources.

You can do that with alcohol and cigarettes as well, but nearly no one does.

I think the black market for cannabis is still strong because people have pre-existing weed connections from before legalization.

I think as the years roll by and more cannabis users get their first weed from legal sources, we will see the black market dwindle in size.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

It’s not access, it’s cost. Heavy users can get steeply discounted - and often stronger - weed from illicit sources.

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

You can do that with alcohol and cigarettes as well, but nearly no one does.

I think the black market for cannabis is still strong because people have pre-existing weed connections from before legalization.

I think as the years roll by and more cannabis users get their first weed from legal sources, we will see the black market dwindle in size.

It's definitely what Cliff said. I wasn't a cannabis user until after legalization, and I immediately found websites that are vastly superior to legal sources. Why massively overpay for weaker, grosser-tasting edibles? Legal sources have insanely low strength limits

It'd be like if liquor stores were only allowed to sell a max of 6 Bud Light, and the six pack cost $30. Thanks, but I'll go find a good beer for cheaper

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

The biggest reason is also the most obvious, a capitalistic one. It's cheaper. The retail market can't compete with a 25% disability off the top on taxes. Greedy governments only have themselves to blame for the continued strength of the black market. They also have the solution.

But one of the big justifications for legalizing pot in the first place was for government to get tax revenue from it. If you had tried to sell legalization to the public without the prospect of public revenue, I don’t know that you get the political buy-in. Even with the ‘greedy’ tax rates governments have set, they’re not generating nearly as much tax revenue from pot as projected.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

But one of the big justifications for legalizing pot in the first place was for government to get tax revenue from it. If you had tried to sell legalization to the public without the prospect of public revenue, I don’t know that you get the political buy-in. Even with the ‘greedy’ tax rates governments have set, they’re not generating nearly as much tax revenue from pot as projected.

...because people are buying off market...because taxes are so high...

They could change course to see if doing something different would work better.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Actually, some people did say there wouldn’t be a black market after legalization. (“Terry will be out of business…” etc.) Of course legalization was going to reduce the black market. The question was how much. It turns out by about half. A lot less than what a lot people assumed.

It’s okay to admit that sometimes I’m right

Well if were saying that, then absolutely take a victory lap.

I wonder how much of this is generational. My girlfriend's dad still buys his weed by the pound from an old friend of his, whereas my girlfriend and I are content to buy vape cartridges and edibles from the dispensaries.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by btimbit

It's definitely what Cliff said. I wasn't a cannabis user until after legalization, and I immediately found websites that are vastly superior to legal sources. Why massively overpay for weaker, grosser-tasting edibles? Legal sources have insanely low strength limits

It'd be like if liquor stores were only allowed to sell a max of 6 Bud Light, and the six pack cost $30. Thanks, but I'll go find a good beer for cheaper

I don't do edibles, but as a long time smoker I found exactly the opposite. The online sources I used were cheaper than local dealers, but still $150-$200 an ounce where today I can get an OZ for a little over $100 for similar quality. Under $100 if I want to smoke the legal ditch weed. Plus the comfort of knowing that the #### I am getting is regulated, I have a lot less worry about what I actually end up with. I have old dealers texting me looking for business these days but I have no incentive to go back to the black market at all.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by belsarius

I don't do edibles, but as a long time smoker I found exactly the opposite. The online sources I used were cheaper than local dealers, but still $150-$200 an ounce where today I can get an OZ for a little over $100 for similar quality. Under $100 if I want to smoke the legal ditch weed. Plus the comfort of knowing that the #### I am getting is regulated, I have a lot less worry about what I actually end up with. I have old dealers texting me looking for business these days but I have no incentive to go back to the black market at all.

Definitely seems like an edible-specific issue (maybe oils and vapes too?) since they were slow to have legal offerings there to begin with, and then once they finally did they're incredibly weak and expensive. I'm glad to hear it's not like that across the board though

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

The biggest reason is also the most obvious, a capitalistic one. It's cheaper. The retail market can't compete with a 25% disability off the top on taxes. Greedy governments only have themselves to blame for the continued strength of the black market. They also have the solution.

Typical leftist mindset, I'm rom the government and I'm here to help. No, unfortunately the government does not have solutions and yes they provide an impudent to the free market.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

Typical leftist mindset, I'm rom the government and I'm here to help. No, unfortunately the government does not have solutions and yes they provide an impudent to the free market.

LOL, what? The solution the government has is to reduce taxes. Get out of the way.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

LOL, what? The solution the government has is to reduce taxes. Get out of the way.

That’s seems foolish,

There is demand for the product at the legal retail selling price. Lowering taxes to hope people change their purchasing habits seems counter productive. I would bet it would also be not really that successful.

Instead enforcement and prosecution of the illegal market is what is required. Start fining purchasers in the grey market and start charging illegal suppliers.

The reason it still exists is because the government is tolerant of it and has chosen not to crack down on it.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

LOL, what? The solution the government has is to reduce taxes. Get out of the way.

You can get an eighth of weed for like $20-30 in the store. That is cheaper than it was 25 years ago when I was in high school.

Literally everything else over that period of time has doubled or tripled in price.


Anyone complaining about high prices most likely has something of a dependency issue.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

You can get an eighth of weed for like $20-30 in the store. That is cheaper than it was 25 years ago when I was in high school.

Literally everything else over that period of time has doubled or tripled in price.

Anyone complaining about high prices most likely has something of a dependency issue.

I wasn't talking so much about purchasers, but the challenge it brings to the legal industry. Here's a good article on it.


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfo...axes-1.6937781

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

You can get an eighth of weed for like $20-30 in the store. That is cheaper than it was 25 years ago when I was in high school.

Literally everything else over that period of time has doubled or tripled in price.


Anyone complaining about high prices most likely has something of a dependency issue.

Compared with alcohol, a bigger share of pot users are heavy users. People who smoke/ingest a lot of cannabis. It’s those heavy users who haven’t switched to the legal market. At the volumes they consume, they can get cheaper (and stronger) weed on the black market. And the fact they’re heavy users means they already had a reliable supplier before legalization.

I agree with the comment upthread that this might work itself out over time as younger users have access to legal pot from the get-go.