I mean "giveaway machine" - Huberdeau isn't even in the top 25. He's 58% and 59% Corsi and Fenwick respectively, which ain't bad and doesn't point to a guy who's as bad as being suggested.
He has been much better, but he certainly did look like a giveaway machine in the first half of games played so far.
I mean "giveaway machine" - Huberdeau isn't even in the top 25. He's 58% and 59% Corsi and Fenwick respectively, which ain't bad and doesn't point to a guy who's as bad as being suggested.
Huberdeau is 42nd in the league for giveaways per 60, which isn't horrendous. Not great, but not horrible. He is 2nd on the Flames, behind Kadri. The difference being is that Kadri also ranks high in takeways per 60, so it somewhat balances out. Huberdeau has a wide gap between the two. Mathew Tkachuk is even worse this year though.
It's a weird stat to rely on though because there is much more to it. I recall Gaudreau giving the puck away fairly often, but he would take it back just as often. McDavid is the same way. And not all giveaways end the same. Most just happen during the natural course of the game and nothing comes of it, but some are so egregious that that they end up in scoring chances or goals against. I think that is why Huberdeau's stand out so much. It seems like when he has a giveaway, it leads to an event.
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Huberdeau is 42nd in the league for giveaways per 60, which isn't horrendous. Not great, but not horrible. He is 2nd on the Flames, behind Kadri. The difference being is that Kadri also ranks high in takeways per 60, so it somewhat balances out. Huberdeau has a wide gap between the two. Mathew Tkachuk is even worse this year though.
It's a weird stat to rely on though because there is much more to it. I recall Gaudreau giving the puck away fairly often, but he would take it back just as often. McDavid is the same way. And not all giveaways end the same. Most just happen during the natural course of the game and nothing comes of it, but some are so egregious that that they end up in scoring chances or goals against. I think that is why Huberdeau's stand out so much. It seems like when he has a giveaway, it leads to an event.
I think you are only counting forwards on the Flames. Which is fair enough. But I don't see most of Huberdeau's giveaways leading to big events against the Flames - more ending positive possession in the offesnive zone.
I guess the league counters disagree. He's not even top 5 on the team. He does have a negative GA/TA ratio for what it's worth.
Gaudreau was called a "giveaway machine" as well. It's a function of playing style a bit.
Well, I slightly disagree here. I do think that the more you carry and handle the puck, the more giveaways you make. That's expected and normal.
Gaudreau was criticized in his down years, especially when he started doing that button-hook just inside the offensive blue-line. I think that was a function of not having many options, symptom of an incompatible system, etc. You are right however, that puck carriers will always have more giveaways.
However, that's not the issue with Huberdeau. I would watch him and tally how many successful passes he would make in a game, regardless of length or difficulty, and let's just say it wasn't a large number. Lots of those were clean interceptions, or they were too far off the mark either in front or behind, or were in players' skates, which then caused the turnover. Of course the cringe-worthy 'spinorama to nowhere' was happening too often. I counted 'clean' passes, and it was ugly. I remember posting how he wasn't really making even simple clean passes for the most part.
Now? Way better. Much cleaner, and even has connected on some high-skill passes with some regularity. I thought he was below-replacement level, and now he is above replacement level. Hopefully it contineus going in the right direction as it certainly has been.
However, he must have been the worst on the team up until he got paired with Backlund, no? I wonder what the snapshot was at the time.
All those years of playing with Bennett and Duclair really paid off for him.
For ten years, Jonathan Huberdeau had a pretty good idea what the Florida Panthers were trying to do. They were built around him.
He knew every player on the roster, in the organization, from training camps and years of experience. He knew what to expect even if they weren’t playing together all the time. He had a book of knowledge.
Putting that in what is undeniably a chaotic situation is not a recipe for success.
The player shares the blame for performance, but the longer he goes, the more comfortable he’s going to get. There are still many years of productive hockey ahead of him.
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Pinder with a pretty depressing take on Huberdeau, and I can't really argue with it.
At this point, can you justify making roster moves just to see if you can cater to him and get him going? He hasn't shown enough that it makes sense to spend assets just for his sake.
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"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
There is no way we should throw any more money trying to fix this problem. Trying to build something around Huby is very unlikely to provide results. If there was any spark, any sign that something may work, I’d say, take the chance. But there isn’t.
We need to do the exact opposite, take him off the PP, reduce his minutes, put him right at the bottom of the line up and concentrate on solving the problems we have with players where there have at least been some sparks, like Mang and Lindy - even if the latter is on the way out.
There is no way we should throw any more money trying to fix this problem. Trying to build something around Huby is very unlikely to provide results. If there was any spark, any sign that something may work, I’d say, take the chance. But there isn’t.
We need to do the exact opposite, take him off the PP, reduce his minutes, put him right at the bottom of the line up and concentrate on solving the problems we have with players where there have at least been some sparks, like Mang and Lindy - even if the latter is on the way out.
I agree. It makes zero sense to give Huby more minutes, less ice time would be better.
Sit him for at least a couple of games to see if watching from the press box helps get him going.
The player shares the blame for performance, but the longer he goes, the more comfortable he’s going to get. There are still many years of productive hockey ahead of him.
He doesn’t appear to be getting more comfortable.
Players change teams all the time. Why isn’t the Huber Effect more widely known?
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I'm just not sure what anyone is expecting. He's a playmaker playing with players who aren't really goal scorers. He makes multiple nice passes every game to guys who aren't shooters.
He makes bad plays too but if his linemates were finishing more often people would ignore those mistakes like they are currently doing with Kadri.
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At this point, you just gotta bottom out for a bit and hope we draft a young stud of a forward or two and they can hopefully re-spark Huby or take the pressure off of him feeling like he has to be the face of the team
I think Pinder is right in that it is one of the worst contracts but I disagree on the cut his minutes etc. Play him a crap tonne of minutes and he either turns it around or helps the tank. I don’t see it happening now but maybe just maybe he can have a Karlsson like season and some dumb GM will bite
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At this point, can you justify making roster moves just to see if you can cater to him and get him going? He hasn't shown enough that it makes sense to spend assets just for his sake.
They haven’t done it yet. Not sure why they start now.
I'm just not sure what anyone is expecting. He's a playmaker playing with players who aren't really goal scorers. He makes multiple nice passes every game to guys who aren't shooters.
He makes bad plays too but if his linemates were finishing more often people would ignore those mistakes like they are currently doing with Kadri.
This is definitely part of the problem. If Zary was asked to play center and Pelletier wasn't injured, this could be headed in a positive trend.
He clearly has no success playing a simple style.
And to the other posters who say don't throw any more money at him, demote to the fourth line and reduce minutes? 10.5m per and in his first year. You don't just give up on an investment of that size immediately. Hire 3 pro scouts with a million dollar bonus to the man who can identify who and or what will work with the guy.
I know people love to look at the advanced stats but their is also the eye test. If you didn't know hockey and watched most teams in the NHL, it would be obvious as to who the better players were. Watch Calgary and nobody would pick him out as one of the better players. the fact that many still continue to make excuses for him is shocking, in over 100 games, i cant recall a game where I came away really impressed, a nice play here or there is not enough. this team has as bad a PP as anyone and Huska continues to put him out on the first unit? I get you want to wake him up but cmon.
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I'm just not sure what anyone is expecting. He's a playmaker playing with players who aren't really goal scorers. He makes multiple nice passes every game to guys who aren't shooters.
He makes bad plays too but if his linemates were finishing more often people would ignore those mistakes like they are currently doing with Kadri.
I do feel like there’s a lot of people looking hard for mistakes, so they can complain about salary. He’s obviously not producing - it just doesn’t seem to be lack of effort. It’s just not working right. And it’s not all his fault - he does set up a lot of unconverted chances, and he does get forced into no-win situations like his giveaway last night because there’s no up ice support or open mates.
Giving him minutes, trying to find the right fit, etc isn’t coddling or catering to him. It’s just coaching and trying to improve the player’s production and, in doing so, the team’s chances of winning in any particular game. Benching him, demoting him to 4th line, isn’t going to help, it’s just vindictive thinking by posters wanting to “punish” poor production.
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Haven't they basically tried him with everyone on the team at one time or another?
yes, the narrative that the whole team is so unskilled and dragging down the great Huberdeau is laughable. Zary as a rookie in 20 games has made a bigger impact than Huberdeau has in over 100 games and he is playing with the same "unskilled, non creative" players. Kadri also has been quite noticeable in a good way.
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