Zadorov just requested a trade. 😢

[Bingo]

Indeed ... Jokinen would count.

Doesn't feel the same as they didn't trade him for futures and instead made a panic move with the Rangers, but certainly qualifies.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

It always seems that way until one of your top 4 gets injured. There's value in having a #5 who can play up the lineup.

If a team has an injury and it's going for it, then it acquires a top 4 D at the deadline.

If it's a bottom dweller then a prospect gets the opportunity, because development is more important than points.

If it's a team in the middle it might help said team make the playoffs instead of missing them, but IMO they won't get out of the 1st round with Z in the top4.

How many wins did we get when Andersson was out of the lineup?

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

But Zad won't /wouldn't be the #5 D next season, he would currently slot in as #3.

I assume the Flames wouldnt bring in another top 4 , so Zad would slot as the #3/4 guy

I still prefer trading for assets and just signing someone cheaper, shorter term, and a little worse to fill the slot - as that makes more sense for where the Flames are competitively IMO

He would be a terrible #3

If he is a solid #3, he deserves whatever he is asking

[Drunk Uncle]

Originally Posted by CFO

Zadorov for $3 and 3-4 years sure. Nothing more.

Assuming the cap goes up to $87.5 MM next year (that's what capfriendly has), you are suggesting Zadorov take a similar contract by cap % (3.4%) to:

Maata
TVR
Justin Schultz
Ian Cole
Lyubushkin
Kulak
Peeke
Rutta
Luke Schenn

Looking at that list, there is no way you sign Zadorov for $3 MM especially when you consider his current contract was 4.5% of cap (~$4 MM of next years cap) when he signed with the Flames.

He is almost certainly getting north of $4 MM (~$4-$4.5 MM) and that would be fair value for him when you consider the guys around those numbers:

Brenden Dillon
Gudas
Leddy
Larsson
Grzelcyk
Gudbranson
McCabe
Pettersson

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by Drunk Uncle

Assuming the cap goes up to $87.5 MM next year (that's what capfriendly has), you are suggesting Zadorov take a similar contract by cap % (3.4%) to:

Maata
TVR
Justin Schultz
Ian Cole
Lyubushkin
Kulak
Peeke
Rutta
Luke Schenn

Looking at that list, there is no way you sign Zadorov for $3 MM especially when you consider his current contract was 4.5% of cap (~$4 MM of next years cap) when he signed with the Flames.

He is almost certainly getting north of $4 MM (~$4-$4.5 MM) and that would be fair value for him when you consider the guys around those numbers:

Brenden Dillon
Gudas
Leddy
Larsson
Grzelcyk
Gudbranson
McCabe
Pettersson

I think people get hung up on numbers, when it has more to do with percentages. Thanks for your post.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I kind of hope he's dealt for a solid return, gets to summer and realizes the Flames were on point with their most recent offer, and circles back and signs a 2 year deal in Calgary (even 3 if the dollars are good).

We've never had one of those ... deal and get back.

Ummm Jokinen says Hi! lol

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

Ummm Jokinen says Hi! lol

He already said hi, a couple times now.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

He would be a terrible #3

If he is a solid #3, he deserves whatever he is asking

I think you're missing his point.

In Calgary next year if Tanev and Hanifin are dealt for futures he would be the #3 by default and potentially have more value in Calgary then elsewhere.

[Textcritic]

^
I continue to think that the best option for the Flames is to re-sign Hanifin, and move both Zadorov and Tanev. Hanifin skates really well and is a smart player, and he is young enough that a long term deal likely doesn't hurt the team on the back end of it. Having three veteran guys committed long-term provides for a nice core of defensemen to build around, especially for a team with a dearth of burgeoning defensive prospects right now.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

He already said hi, a couple times now.

One too many times.....

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

^
I continue to think that the best option for the Flames is to re-sign Hanifin, and move both Zadorov and Tanev. Hanifin skates really well and is a smart player, and he is young enough that a long term deal likely doesn't hurt the team on the back end of it. Having three veteran guys committed long-term provides for a nice core of defensemen to build around, especially for a team with a dearth of burgeoning defensive prospects right now.

What did you think of the Hanifin - Weegar pairing when Andersson was gone? If Hanifin was offered $7.5M that was a potential ~$14M pairing. Granted the entire team was bad, but that pairing didn't look like a top pairing to me.

I'd like to see the entire D overhauled, by letting all 3 UFAs leave. I'd much rather spend some of the assets we get back for our UFAs for a good player like the Canucks did with Hronek. Sanheim came to mind during the offseason, but I don't think he'll be for sale now.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

What did you think of the Hanifin - Weegar pairing when Andersson was gone? If Hanifin was offered $7.5M that was a potential ~$14M pairing. Granted the entire team was bad, but that pairing didn't look like a top pairing to me.

I'd like to see the entire D overhauled, by letting all 3 UFAs leave. I'd much rather spend some of the assets we get back for our UFAs for a good player like the Canucks did with Hronek. Sanheim came to mind during the offseason, but I don't think he'll be for sale now.

In today's market a $14 m pairing is probably the ballpark for a very good second pairing, which is exactly what Weegar and Hanifin would be.

I also like the idea of marshalling assets through trades to improve the lineup with younger players, but that can still be done through trading away other assets.

[NewFan]

I like Zadorov and I was okay to re-sign him if he is really Okay to play for rebuilding team with fair salary.
But he wants a trade and he knows he has some demand.
He should bring a good return if we take salary dump with expiring contract. So I hope Conroy wait and maximize his return.
There will be tons of options to sign veteran cheap D to help younger team next off-season.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by NewFan

I like Zadorov and I was okay to re-sign him if he is really Okay to play for rebuilding team with fair salary.
But he wants a trade and he knows he has some demand.
He should bring a good return if we take salary dump with expiring contract. So I hope Conroy wait and maximize his return.
There will be tons of options to sign veteran cheap D to help younger team next off-season.

Didn't Miller and Debrusk ask for trades last year? Seems to have worked itself out.

[shutout]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

In today's market a $14 m pairing is probably the ballpark for a very good second pairing, which is exactly what Weegar and Hanifin would be.

$14M would be in the ballpark of where your top pairing defense should be.
Your second pairing should be in the $11M range.
You bottom pairing in the $8M range.

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by shutout

$14M would be in the ballpark of where your top pairing defense should be.
Your second pairing should be in the $11M range.
You bottom pairing in the $8M range.

With next year's cap increase, expect top pairings on fresh UFA contracts to be paid at least $16-17M. You can't compare next year's contracts with previous years, the increase is going to be substantial.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by shutout

$14M would be in the ballpark of where your top pairing defense should be.
Your second pairing should be in the $11M range.
You bottom pairing in the $8M range.

$8M for a bottom pairing is way too much.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I think you're missing his point.

In Calgary next year if Tanev and Hanifin are dealt for futures he would be the #3 by default and potentially have more value in Calgary then elsewhere.

Sure but he is still a terrible #3, be better off giving to some younger cheaper player if you don’t want to compete

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Sure but he is still a terrible #3, be better off giving to some younger cheaper player if you don’t want to compete

I'm in the asset management not tank camp. They'll always want to compete.

If the Flames move 4 UFAs they likely have cap space. A reasonable contract for Zadorov and more ice time wouldn't be a bad way to spend some money if the term isn't extensive.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

In today's market a $14 m pairing is probably the ballpark for a very good second pairing, which is exactly what Weegar and Hanifin would be.

I also like the idea of marshalling assets through trades to improve the lineup with younger players, but that can still be done through trading away other assets.

I think you're a little off on 2nd pairings evaluations.

BOS: Lindholm(6.5) + Carlo(4.1) = 10.6
COL: Byram(3.85) - Manson(4.5)/Girard(5) = 8.9-9.5
CAR: Skjei(5.25) - Pesce(4.025) = 9.3
DAL: Lindell(5.8) - Hakanpaa(1.5) = 7.3
FLA: Mikkola(2.5) - Montour(3.5) = 6
LAK: Gavrikov(5.875) - Roy(3.15) = 9
MIN: Middleton(2.45) - Spurgeon(7.575) = 10
NYR: Miller(3.872) - Trouba(8) = 11.9
PHI: Seeler(.775) - Walker(2.65) = 3.4
- Ellis(6.25), and Risto(5.1) on LTIR
PIT: Graves(4.5) - Letang(6.1) = 10.6
SEA: Oleksiak(4.6) - Borgen(2.7) = 7.3
STL: Leddy(4)/Krug(6.5) + Faulk(6.5) = 10.5-13
TBL: Perbix(1.125) - Hedman(7.875) = 10
TOR: Gio(.8) - McCabe(2) = 2.8
- Klingberg(4.15), Muzzin(5.625), Lijegren(1.4) IR/LTIR
VAN: Cole(3) -Myers(6) = 9
VGK: McNabb(2.85) - Theodore(5.2) = 8
WSH: Sandin(1.4) - Jensen(4.05) = 5.5

Am I missing any of the top teams?