[Rumour] Francis: All contract talks on hold for Flames

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by dino7c

I don't think they offered him 2

I'm just saying the media pile on was misleading

I thought that is what they offered him - he wanted 6, they wanted 2, they agreed to move on

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

The impact a GM makes takes time.

Well, Yzerman didn’t get Tampa anywhere, right? GM for 8 years, left Tampa after a 62 win season to return to Detroit, apologized for not winning a cup… and then they won 2 cups with the team he built.

He joined Detroit in 2019 and quite frankly they aren’t looking too shabby to start this year.

I think that is a good example of how fans judge other teams and other GMs than they do their own.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

The impact a GM makes takes time.

Well, Yzerman didn’t get Tampa anywhere, right? GM for 8 years, left Tampa after a 62 win season to return to Detroit, apologized for not winning a cup… and then they won 2 cups with the team he built.

He joined Detroit in 2019 and quite frankly they aren’t looking too shabby to start this year.

The start is pretty much just Debrincat finally getting home and having a mean start to the season. I suspect they will not be a PO team - their goaltending is too suspect.

But it's interesting almost all of his team is not home grown now - he's not really buidling from a tank strategy. And of the three important homegrown players only two were Yzerman draftees. His D is pretty old now as well.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Not sure how they could have put Lucic on IR, but what I think they COULD HAVE done was to say to Monahan: "look, we love ya, but you're lack of health is killing us. Take the year off, get whatever surgery you need, and rebuild your body, and we can start fresh next year (or int he playoffs)"

To me, that would have been a lot smarter than giving up a 1st to move him out, to save one year's cap hit.

Smarter, yes.

But the owners would not have approved that.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Smarter, yes.

But the owners would not have approved that.

They basically did with Kylington

[3thirty]

Originally Posted by dino7c

You can't just "put Lucic on LTIR"

It works in Toronto and Edmonton?

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I thought that is what they offered him - he wanted 6, they wanted 2, they agreed to move on

could be right...I know he wanted a long term

at the time though it was reported as usual like clickbait

"another Flames star demands out of Calgary!" "Flames forced to trade top scorer"

it was weeks before it was even mentioned that he actually wanted to stay. Every article was "what's wrong with Calgary and why does nobody want to sign.

Just saying it was misleading, Flames could have signed all these guys in the summer...overpay? maybe.

Tkachuk and Gaudreau weren't signing no matter the $$$$

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

The start is pretty much just Debrincat finally getting home and having a mean start to the season. I suspect they will not be a PO team - their goaltending is too suspect.

But it's interesting almost all of his team is not home grown now - he's not really buidling from a tank strategy. And of the three important homegrown players only two were Yzerman draftees. His D is pretty old now as well.

I suspect you have to give a little more time before you expect 18-20 year old kids to make an impact.

But he does really only have Raymond (21 years old) Seider (22 years old) to show for his drafts at the NHL level right now. A bunch of his European picks are playing their first seasons in NA right now and Hanas, Mazur,Edvinsson, Savage and Cossa look like legit prospects.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by dino7c

You can't just "put Lucic on LTIR"

Mike Smith says hi. Taylor Hall was ready to come back (according to him) but the Bruins kept him on. Matt Murray has a concussion history but I suspect he's able to play right now.

Lucic's Scheurmann's disease could suddenly become painful.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

I suspect you have to give a little more time before you expect 18-20 year old kids to make an impact.

But he does really only have Raymond (21 years old) Seider (22 years old) to show for his drafts at the NHL level right now. A bunch of his European picks are playing their first seasons in NA right now and Hanas, Mazur,Edvinsson, Savage and Cossa look like legit prospects.

Maybe those prospects pan out, but none of that is part of the "the Wings look good right now" discussion. I don't think Yzerman is a bad GM - he's a good one. But if the evidence is Detroit's record today, it's a record built off of trades and UFA signings.

Detroit has picked top 10 for 7 years now. They should have been a powerhouse 2 years ago according to many here.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Maybe those prospects pan out, but none of that is part of the "the Wings look good right now" discussion. I don't think Yzerman is a bad GM - he's a good one. But if the evidence is Detroit's record today, it's a record built off of trades and UFA signings.

Detroit has picked top 10 for 7 years now. They should have been a powerhouse 2 years ago according to many here.

Yeah, their high end picks have kind of sucked

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Maybe those prospects pan out, but none of that is part of the "the Wings look good right now" discussion. I don't think Yzerman is a bad GM - he's a good one. But if the evidence is Detroit's record today, it's a record built off of trades and UFA signings.

Detroit has picked top 10 for 7 years now. They should have been a powerhouse 2 years ago according to many here.

Sure, they do it their way and we can do it our way. Neither team is a powerhouse. I would say Seider and Raymond are some pretty good pieces to build around. The one thing I am very confident in is that no team can be a powerhouse with a bunch of players in their 30’s, which is the Flames path right now, especially if they signed Lindholm. Something needs to change.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Sure, they do it their way and we can do it our way. Neither team is a powerhouse. I would say Seider and Raymond are some pretty good pieces to build around. The one thing I am very confident in is that no team can be a powerhouse with a bunch of players in their 30’s, which is the Flames path right now, especially if they signed Lindholm. Something needs to change.

Don't look now but Detroit has Larkin just on a new 8 year contract at age 29, Copp with 4 to go on his deal at 29, 35 year old Perron, and 4 D over 30 (and Maatta is 29).

[Philly06Cup]

Worth stating. A planned rebuild is not guaranteed success. So many here think it's a magical bullet that will lead to multiple cups. Tanking is not a guarantee for success.

Look at Edmonton. Even with two MVPs on their team, they've never won the conference, and have only made Rd 3 once. And that's with McDavid and Draisaitl. They also had a bunch of failed years with Gagner/ Hall/ Nuge/ Yakupov. The Flames, through all of their 'mediocrity', have won the West, and division, and have been as competitive the last 10 years without tanking. If it weren't for Tkachuk/Gaudreau leaving for their own reasons, they would still be a top team in the West today.

Look at Buffalo. Playoff drought of 12 years. Sam Reinhart, Dahlin, Eichel, Cozens, and they have nothing to show for it.

Arizona has been tanking for years, and still doesn't look like they're going anywhere.

Toronto has already soured on Matthews/Marner, saying they can't cut it in the playoffs.

There are more busts in the top 10 of drafts than franchise chanaging hits.
-Tanking isn't a magical cure.
-Retooling without burning things to the ground can work and keep your team competitive.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Smarter, yes.

But the owners would not have approved that.

Thanks, Murray

[dustygoon]

I think Dallas and St Louis is the model. Some pricey older players but adding in some EXCELLENT drafting and the teams are good (well one is!). Or Carolina with shorter term contracts.

I hate rebuild rebuild rebuild, window opens and all-in. Rinse and repeat.

Teams should be able to be competitive almost every year if they manage draft picks well and make tough decisions on UFA's and use the cap wisely.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Don't look now but Detroit has Larkin just on a new 8 year contract at age 29, Copp with 4 to go on his deal at 29, 35 year old Perron, and 4 D over 30 (and Maatta is 29).

Don’t look now but Dylan Larkin just became 2 years younger and is 27 years old.

But yes, they have Larkin under contract until he is 34.

They have Copp under contract until he is 32 (another 3 years after this)

They have Perron under contract until the end of this year.

And they have Petry on a two year deal at 2.34 million and they have Chiarot and Holl until they are 35 with 3 yrs left each.

The Flames have Huberdeau locked down for another 7 years until he is 37

They have Kadri locked down for another 5 years until he is 38

They have Backlund locked down for another 2 years until he is 37

They have Coleman locked down for another 3 years until he is 35

They have Weegar locked down 7 years until he is 37.

They have Markstrom locked down for another 2 years until he is 36.

One team has significantly more term and money tied into guys in their 30’s than the other.

The Red Wings after this season have about 19.1 million in guys who will be in their 30’s next year.

The Flames have about 39.2 million in guys who will be in their 30’s next year.

[kermitology]

UFA deals have to be for complimentary players and no more than 3 years. Build through younger players and trades. At least, that would be my approach.

[dino7c]

Detroit was also terrible for a long time, they should have more good young players...80 points is their best season over the past 7

say what you want about the Flames they have been a 93-111 point team

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by dino7c

could be right...I know he wanted a long term

at the time though it was reported as usual like clickbait

"another Flames star demands out of Calgary!" "Flames forced to trade top scorer"

it was weeks before it was even mentioned that he actually wanted to stay. Every article was "what's wrong with Calgary and why does nobody want to sign.

Just saying it was misleading, Flames could have signed all these guys in the summer...overpay? maybe.

Tkachuk and Gaudreau weren't signing no matter the $$$$

Conroy commented on the term piece shortly after the trade basically said they were being cautious with term and when he talked to Toffoli’s people there was a huge gap which quickly lead to the trade request. Good news is the Flames have reportedly been very cautious with term for any UFA outside of the Lindholm/Hanifin pair which certainly would push that 6-8 year limit if the deals did get done