[Rumour] Francis: All contract talks on hold for Flames

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Robbob

Re-tool will lead to a rebuild if it doesn't work. At the end of the day if Conroy can get value back for the expiring contracts, even if it is getting a player under a shorter contract plus some futures (prospects or picks). At least kicking the can down the road puts them in a position where the cap is actually going up, so less teams are in cap jail.

My problem with a re-tool inevitably turning into a rebuild is that we should be trying to avoid the problem we faced exiting the Iginla era where we actually have nothing to show for trading the likes of Iginla and Bouwmeester because we waited too long and the value we got in return for them was abysmal.

If we had entered the Gaudreau/Tkachuk era with even one more key/core piece, maybe this team's fortunes change.

Right now, I fear that if we try re-tool trades with Lindholm/Hanifin, we will eventually be starting our next rebuild with even fewer assets/future pieces than our last.

We should be looking to liquidate their value now rather than liquidating the assets we get in return for them in 2-3 years.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I wonder if Lindholm is going to regret not taking the 8 year deal for absurd money.

He'll get 8.5 in the summer. Don't think he is sweating

[dino7c]

its becoming obvious people complain no matter what they do

obviously results are going to change direction...with every team. Teams that may be in the market for a rental will make their decision during the season depending on the standings.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

We need to coin a new phrase.
How about we brand this thing a "re-engineering" or a "re-factoring"?

Or how about 'moving forward'?

Why do people get so hung up on names? "'Retool?' What a bunch of idiots!"

<exact same player transaction takes place, regardless>

[Winsor_Pilates]

Very good news, but I also see why some are concerned the management needed these 9 games to understand the obvious of this team's makeup.

I guess better late than never; but does make me wonder the competency of those in charge when they had their head in the sand like rose coloured homers 2 weeks ago.

[Ferarri]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

We need to coin a new phrase.
How about we brand this thing a "re-engineering" or a "re-factoring"?

If it starts with a 'R' you'll need to get approval from John Bean. He's not allowed to use the R Word.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

So fold the team? What is the point of #### like this?

Complaining makes me feel better?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

My problem with a re-tool inevitably turning into a rebuild is that we should be trying to avoid the problem we faced exiting the Iginla era where we actually have nothing to show for trading the likes of Iginla and Bouwmeester because we waited too long and the value we got in return for them was abysmal.

If we had entered the Gaudreau/Tkachuk era with even one more key/core piece, maybe this team's fortunes change.

Right now, I fear that if we try re-tool trades with Lindholm/Hanifin, we will eventually be starting our next rebuild with even fewer assets/future pieces than our last.

We should be looking to liquidate their value now rather than liquidating the assets we get in return for them in 2-3 years.

The problem with the last rebuild wasn't starting too late (it's never too late), it was ending it too soon.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Locke

We knew this ages ago though.

We knew this from watching this team on TV. How does management, who is around them everyday not figure this out before us?

Because either they don't want to build a winner, or they don't know how.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by dino7c

its becoming obvious people complain no matter what they do

obviously results are going to change direction...with every team. Teams that may be in the market for a rental will make their decision during the season depending on the standings.

Yeah, I'll reserve judgment until they make some moves. Re-tool could be Lindholm to Columbus for Sillinger + a 1st. Hanifin for a younger player with upside etc.

Posters: Flames better not re-sign Lindholm and Hanifin. Flames hold off on contracts. Same posters: NoT lIkE tHaT

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Another indication this team has no plan and is flying by the seat of their pants. Sad to see. Had more hope for Conroy and would have hoped he learned from Treliving’s mistakes.

Come on now. They had to do their due diligence and see what the team was this year. They're doing exactly what a team that inherented trelivings mess needed to do

The mere fact that they held off on signing either of the major UFAs and were patient before signing the future away is exactly what all of us would do in hindsight.

Conroy's played this awful hand about as well as he could given the ownership and their MO.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

The problem with the last rebuild wasn't starting too late (it's never too late), it was ending it too soon.

I think both played a factor but I absolutely believe that the Flames should have started the rebuild in 2011, or at least in 2012. I can barely remember the 2011/2012 season outside of Baertschi's callup. That team had nothing.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

My problem with a re-tool inevitably turning into a rebuild is that we should be trying to avoid the problem we faced exiting the Iginla era where we actually have nothing to show for trading the likes of Iginla and Bouwmeester because we waited too long and the value we got in return for them was abysmal.

The returns for Lindholm and Hanifin will be a repeat of those trades if they go pure futures. 1st+b prospects or 2nd rounds picks.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

We need to coin a new phrase.
How about we brand this thing a "re-engineering" or a "re-factoring"?

A reimagining?

[Bingo]

Just crazy to see so many apply their own definition to "retool" and then completely lose their minds in anger.

If you have two immovable contracts you likely call anything you do a retool.

It isn't an easy definition that means they are shortcutting anything, only acquiring veterans or avoiding draft picks.

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Another indication this team has no plan and is flying by the seat of their pants. Sad to see. Had more hope for Conroy and would have hoped he learned from Treliving’s mistakes.

Or they had a bad plan and now accept it as such and are replanning.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Bonded

The returns for Lindholm and Hanifin will be a repeat of those trades if they go pure futures. 1st+b prospects or 2nd rounds picks.

I think it's going to be very difficult to

1. Make "hockey trades" this season in a tight cap world for Lindholm and Hanifin.
2. Get the same value back for the newly acquired players.

It's like doing the summer of Brad all over again.

[Winsor_Pilates]

I wonder if Conroy wanted to go this route sooner but wasnt allowed by the higher ups until now.
I'm hopeful someone in the room had more foresight and finally got the others to take off their blinders.

[Classic_Sniper]

Whether they want to call it a re-tool or a rebuild, It’s basically a recognition that this core is a failure, so I suppose that’s one step in the right direction.

Problem is, I have zero faith in this organization’s pro scouts though. So If all they do are a bunch of Toffoli for Sharganovich trades, then we’re screwed. But if they can land a Tage Thompson for our Ryan O’Reilly type swap, then we might be ok. But im expecting the former rather than the latter based on track record.

John Bean and Don Maloney should be shown the door for their belief in this core. How can anyone be confident that these two will pick the right people in charge when their own judgement is so questionable in it of itself. The pro scouts in this organization need serious turnover or we’ll be stuck in NHL purgatory forever.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I think both played a factor but I absolutely believe that the Flames should have started the rebuild in 2011, or at least in 2012. I can barely remember the 2011/2012 season outside of Baertschi's callup. That team had nothing.

Okay sure. But it's still functionally irrelevant, at the end of the day. To have a successful rebuild, you keep rebuilding until you have enough pieces, regardless of how long it takes.