Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[Firebot]

Originally Posted by fuzz

i think it's actually a good indication that if the carbon tax is overly punitive in some markets/pollutants, that the government is willing to be flexible. It actually bodes well for alberta in the future.

Do you really believe in what you posted?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfo...e-23-1.6988126

Oct 05, 2023

Trudeau defended the policy, saying the impact of climate change is clear.

"In all the conversations I had with rural Canadians across the country this summer, they were devastated by the impacts of record wildfires, of floods, of droughts, of heat waves," Trudeau said.

"They see the impact of climate change, and they know that we need to continue to fight climate change while putting money back in their pockets. That's exactly what our price on pollution does."

We are still in October 2023. The plummeting polls specifically in Atlantic Canada and a mutiny in the making in Liberal ranks are all that changed.

Not counting all the votes against repealing carbon tax, Liberals-NDP coalition also voted specifically against giving a heating oil exemption a year ago

https://www.ourcommons.ca/members/en...197?view=party

Liberals MPs in Nova Scotia was praising the laurels of the new carbon tax a few months ago

https://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/it-s-a-b...-tax-1.6458338

“In Nova Scotia, we have a large, rural population and that is why the federal backstop, called the Climate Incentive Payment, of $250 every quarter for a family of four, will come to about $1,000 a year, is going to offset the increase that people will see at the pump, and people can do their own math of their own vehicle and how they put, but they will see, by and large, that they come out ahead,” said Fillmore.

“The way that carbon pricing works is that people who pollute more, pay more. And in Nova Scotia, like the rest of the country, the people that tend to pollute more - it’s a very small proportion of the community, tend to be wealthier. Why? Because they tend to take vacations on jet planes, they tend to own more vehicles, bigger houses with high ceiling that require more energy to heat them, and so those are the people who may come out behind on the Climate Incentive Payment,” he said.

“The majority of Nova Scotians will come out ahead, especially when you consider there’s a rural ‘top-up’,” he added.

Also less than a month ago, Guilbault specifically stating there will be no exception.

https://calgaryherald.com/business/v...ks-infuriating

“But there will be no carve-out for a province. How fair would it be for the rest of the federation if we started carving out exceptions for provinces?”

Yet here we are.

It's not like it wasn't clearly obvious that excessive carbon tax on heating oil was overly punitive to rural Atlantic Canada, as all 4 Atlantic Canada premiers wrote to the government.

With all the evidence and quotes from Liberal MPs in recent months, as well as their voting on motions, how can you state what you did, or believe this 'bodes well for Alberta' or claim the government is willing to be flexible? Liberals are losing their seats in Atlantic Canada. That's all this is about.

[CaptainCrunch]

Yeah it feels like the Liberals are in a panic right now, especially with their atlantic fortress crumbling.


A lot of things that we were poking fun at on the conservatives for saying stupid things on social media, is now becoming a Liberal thing, as the formerly strong Liberal Comms group feels like its losing control of its members.

[2Stonedbirds]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I think it's actually a good indication that if the carbon tax is overly punitive in some markets/pollutants, that the government is willing to be flexible. It actually bodes well for Alberta in the future.

But the LPC says the tax puts more money in your pocket? How could that be punitive?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/beta.ct...21490.amp.html

"Rural Economic Development Minister Gudie Hutchings says if Western and Prairie provinces want to secure carve-outs in the federal government’s carbon pricing policy, they should elect more Liberal ministers who can share their concerns with the government"

Can't hear and/or address concerns unless you vote LPC.

"Polling from Abacus Data shows the Liberals losing six points in Atlantic Canada from June to September, after the carbon price came into effect, while the Conservatives gained 11 points in that same timeframe.

And when asked whether the federal government is looking into carve outs in the policy for people outside of Atlantic Canada, or for other types of home heating, Hutchings said it depends on the success of the new pilot project.

“That's a discussion that we'll have down the road when we know that this one is working, but I can tell you Atlantic Caucus was vocal with what they've heard from their constituents, and perhaps they need to elect more Liberals in the Prairies so that we can have that conversation as well,” she said."

Can't hear you when we don't secure your vote, as if that isn't enough of an attention getter.

Bodes well so long as you give them power, which means they have to do nothing unless that power is at risk.

LPC standing up for the environment, as long as you stand up for them. Thank God it's not political.

Forward. For everyone. *

*unless you vote for the other guy

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

This is seriously one of the most insane "quiet part out loud" quotes I think I have ever read from any politician ever.

“That's a discussion that we'll have down the road when we know that this one is working, but I can tell you Atlantic Caucus was vocal with what they've heard from their constituents, and perhaps they need to elect more Liberals in the Prairies so that we can have that conversation as well,” she said.

That's legitimately jaw-dropping.

[Yoho]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1718653654977122421

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

This is seriously one of the most insane "quiet part out loud" quotes I think I have ever read from any politician ever.

That's legitimately jaw-dropping.

Like I said, the Liberal comms which used to be pretty tight and inline, have become a smattering of insanity and weirdness.

Mark Gerrettsen who's not the smartest guy out there is posting insane polls, and fighting with people online.

You have the craziness of the above discussions that are going over like a led balloon.

Jen O'Connell thanking a group that has published anti-jew statements and floating conspiracy theories about Oct 7th, for their work on anti-antisemitism. Then pulling out the fake news meme when people are asking her what the F is going on.

Its like literally a free for all for panic.

Katy Telford used to be exceptionally good at this. But even this removal of the carbon tax on home heating oil in the Atlantic provinces is getting attacked as a cynical vote buying move.

It almost feels like for the first time in a long time that the Liberal Party is leaderless.


I mean PP and the Cons are usually really bad at this, but their messaging has just been on point for the last bunch of months. And the Arrive Can stuff is just starting up.


Every political party gets tired when they're in government. We saw this with the Cons, We saw this with the Chretien Liberals and to an extent the Martin Liberals (Though Chretien threw a grenade into the Martin Camp on the way out). But eventually these parties go into haywire mode.

[Jacks]

“That's a discussion that we'll have down the road when we know that this one is working, but I can tell you Atlantic Caucus was vocal with what they've heard from their constituents, and perhaps they need to elect more Liberals in the Prairies so that we can have that conversation as well,” she said."

I can't be the only one who is shocked that Randy Boissonnault isn't a vocal champion for Alberta?
Guess he's too busy hiding corruption and shutting down committees to have the time.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

This is seriously one of the most insane "quiet part out loud" quotes I think I have ever read from any politician ever.



That's legitimately jaw-dropping.

It might be the single most divisive (geopolitical) statement ever uttered by a sitting minister/MP.

I mean they are flat out admitting they do not represent the West because they dont have enough seats West of Ontario.

Apologists will spin this like they do just about every single time this government screws things up, which is daily of late, but reminds me of the saying...

When someone shows you who they are......believe them.

Its mind numbing stuff from a corrupt and inept caucus who is just following their leader.

[ThisIsAnOutrage]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

This is seriously one of the most insane "quiet part out loud" quotes I think I have ever read from any politician ever.



That's legitimately jaw-dropping.

So it's vote for us or get ######ed?

This is why we need people willing to do things like the Freedom Convoy. Treat us fairly or get ####ed.

[monkeyman]

Kent Hehr, cough, cough.

[2Stonedbirds]

Originally Posted by Jacks

I can't be the only one who is shocked that Randy Boissonnault isn't a vocal champion for Alberta?
Guess he's too busy hiding corruption and shutting down committees to have the time.

No doubt. However, he doesn't have to say anything. One seat out west doesn't make a difference. A statement isn't worth the potential loss/gain in political capital.

He can sit tight and risk nothing. The strategy out east will be to forego ideology with buying of votes, both by tax reduction and cash(your money anyways) incentives. When HVAC work invariably picks up due to govt cheese, you can falsely applaud a stronger economy.

This of course will fly in the face of the "more money in your pocket" mantra, but the LPC will bank on voters not being reflective when holding GOC cheques.

Protecting the political entitlement first and foremost is of paramount importance.

[FlamesAddiction]

A second referendum on Khalistan independence is taking place today in BC.

https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2023/1...dence-vote-bc/

I imagine this going worsen the impact on relations with India.

[Wormius]

It’s not like our Alberta MPs do much anyway. Where is Michelle Rempel anyway? I haven’t heard anything from her since I logged off of Twitter. I assume she is still alive?

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

A second referendum on Khalistan independence is taking place today in BC.

https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2023/1...dence-vote-bc/

I imagine this going worsen the impact on relations with India.

Why is this being voted on in BC? I'm genuinely confused.
Is it Canadians voting their meaningless 2 cents, or Indian citizens voting abroad?

Seems like it should be done in Punjab.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Wormius

It’s not like our Alberta MPs do much anyway. Where is Michelle Rempel anyway? I haven’t heard anything from her since I logged off of Twitter. I assume she is still alive?

Politically she's basically dead. When O'Toole got booted she was demoted heavily and made to sit in the back bench. She speaks in the House once in a while but there has been a significant rift between her and the PP led party.

[Fuzz]

And if the party has move right of Michelle Rempel, welll...

[Yoho]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1718780013686755738

[Mr.Coffee]

Nm

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by ThisIsAnOutrage

This is why we need people willing to do things like the Freedom Convoy. Treat us fairly or get ####ed.

I don't think "Do the dumbest and least productive sh-t possible" is the right approach.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

This is seriously one of the most insane "quiet part out loud" quotes I think I have ever read from any politician ever.



That's legitimately jaw-dropping.

Is it? Are people genuinely surprised to learn that politics in Canada has historically operated on patronage and is often transactional?

Parties aren’t driven by abstract ideology. They represent interests, and those interests expect something in return for their electoral support. The Bloc is dedicated entirely to securing a better deal within confederation for Quebec. The NDP doesn’t just have an ideological commitment to labour - it counts on electoral support from unions in exchange for the promise to materially benefit union members if they form government. The Liberals have traditionally eased the way for immigrants in exchange for support at the ballot box. The Conservatives vow to do away with unwanted intrusions by the government into resources industries. When governments of all stripes distribute infrastructure funding and programs, they steer it towards important electoral constituents.

So can we put away the smelling salts? There’s nothing at all unusual about governments rewarding supporters with favourable treatment. Is it the ideal way for democracies to operate? No. Which is why the patronage is usually discrete and unspoken. But this is far from some unprecedented cynicism on the part of a government in Canada.