[Game Takes] Wings 6 Flames 2

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

When the road trip started, I viewed it as the Flames Vs. other Teams in the projected “mucky middle”.

At the conclusion of the trip, the Flames came up lacking. The Flames are standing still, and the teams behind them are improving thanks to strong drafting, and better utilization of the salary cap.

With any luck, the Flames draft in the top-10 in 2024. Without luck, the Flames will draft right where they did last season.

2-3-1 doesn’t paint the picture correctly due to how the NHL pushes for artificial parity, but at the end of the day the Flames have lost twice as many games as they’ve won and I don’t have enough faith in the skill on this team to think they won’t hover right around where they are today - out of the playoffs by a touch.

Heck of thing to see Mangiapane - Backlund - Coleman always do what they do though. That’s a hell of a 3rd line.

The fourth line is not bad too. It’s the top two lines that are killing us.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by NegativeSpace

For those who were predicting that this year would be the same as last year, it does feel like we are seeing the same type of experimentation as we saw last year. While I was expecting an adjustment period for this team to get used to the change in systems, it concerns me that we are seeing the same lack of chemistry this year as last year.

Definitely what I saw tonight. Our top 6 forwards are a nightmare.

[Erick Estrada]

I've been saying this for a while now but this Flames team is just a bad mix of players. Save for a one or two new players in the top 8 is unchanged from last season but it still looks like a group of players that have never played together before. There's just no chemistry on any of the first three lines. It's why I have a hard time getting behind keeping Lindholm as he's a good player but as a center but if he can't easily mesh with wingers then what's the point of overpaying him for 8 more years? For better or worse Kadri and Huberdeau are going to be part of the team for a long time so signing Lindholm would make for the three highest paid players that have absolutely no chemistry with each other or the rest of the roster. That seems like bad team building to me. They can't do anything about the existing contracts they are saddled with but they can minimize the damage going forward. Sometimes you just have to admit that it's not working and turn the page regardless of unrealistic ownership expectations.

[The Cobra]

It was a bad game to be sure, but let’s give the team a little more time.

What choice is there anyway?

Can’t change direction now anyway.

[Bingo]

Yeah that's me too ...

Won't mince words on how they look, not promising at all when it comes to chance creation and offensive chemistry.

When they dial in they play a pretty good puck possession game, which is a good sign, but even then they don't generate enough to score goals ... or maybe they do, but don't finish.

Either way doesn't look great.

But it is early ...

I quietly hoped their pre xmas schedule would be decisive ... very good or very bad to make decisions a little easier before the deadline.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Yeah that's me too ...

Won't mince words on how they look, not promising at all when it comes to chance creation and offensive chemistry.

When they dial in they play a pretty good puck possession game, which is a good sign, but even then they don't generate enough to score goals ... or maybe they do, but don't finish.

Either way doesn't look great.

But it is early ...

I quietly hoped their pre xmas schedule would be decisive ... very good or very bad to make decisions a little easier before the deadline.

Agreed, firmly on or out by Christmas would be ideal

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Yeah that's me too ...

Won't mince words on how they look, not promising at all when it comes to chance creation and offensive chemistry.

When they dial in they play a pretty good puck possession game, which is a good sign, but even then they don't generate enough to score goals ... or maybe they do, but don't finish.

Either way doesn't look great.

But it is early ...

I quietly hoped their pre xmas schedule would be decisive ... very good or very bad to make decisions a little easier before the deadline.

And re-signings should be put on pause until more is known about the makeup of this team.

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Yeah that's me too ...

Won't mince words on how they look, not promising at all when it comes to chance creation and offensive chemistry.

When they dial in they play a pretty good puck possession game, which is a good sign, but even then they don't generate enough to score goals ... or maybe they do, but don't finish.

Either way doesn't look great.

But it is early ...

I quietly hoped their pre xmas schedule would be decisive ... very good or very bad to make decisions a little easier before the deadline.

Tops in the league in generating high danger shots.

Top 8 in the league in all possession metrics.

Bottom end in the league for shooting percentage.

Probably something due for correction.

[D as in David]

Backlund's hands are back to their usual first-half-of-the-season coldness. Last year was the outlier.

[shutout]

Maybe let Kadri play between Greer and Duehr for a few games.
Would have to be hard to be a passenger playing with them and the styles they bring to the game.
Maybe a bit of a wakeup call.

Let Sharangovich move up and play with some more talented players. See what him and Ruzika and Coleman/Mangiapane could do as a group.

[Bingo]

What's interesting now through 6 games is how eerily similar their attack is compared to last season.

HD chances / 60 minutes
2022-23 12.4
2023-24 12.3

HD chances as a % of CF
2022-23 18.7%
2023-24 19.1%

Pretty much flat.

Now if you start editing the numbers and take out the Winnipeg game it's been a lot better since, but not a fan of removing data to make everyone feel better.

[activeStick]

No argument from me that the effort vs. Detroit needs to be a hell of a lot better than it was. I do give them the benefit of doubt given it was the last game of their road trip.

Huska and staff made a big mistake rolling out new lines without any practice time. Especially when, to me, the original top line seemed to be showing progress. Maybe he did it due to some sort of lingering injury to Huberdeau from his blocked shot the last game? Not sure. If it wasn't due to injury and was done on a whim despite the chemistry shown to date, I hope they realize the mistake and learn from it.

I agree that while it's a data point, a team's status last year as a playoff team or not doesn't mean too much to me. It's a data point, but clearly Detroit shouldn't be lumped in with a team like the Bluejackets if assessing opponents.

It's still early. It was a disappointing road trip, but it's early. The worry did creep in today despite it being early and the 2025 draft being so far away, that the Flames end up losing a real game-changer if they aren't able to turn things around by then.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Bingo

What's interesting now through 6 games is how eerily similar their attack is compared to last season.

HD chances / 60 minutes
2022-23 12.4
2023-24 12.3

HD chances as a % of CF
2022-23 18.7%
2023-24 19.1%

Pretty much flat.

Now if you start editing the numbers and take out the Winnipeg game it's been a lot better since, but not a fan of removing data to make everyone feel better.

Take out the bad stats win against Winnipeg and then go straight to tanking talk. 1-3-1

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Take out the bad stats win against Winnipeg and then go straight to tanking talk. 1-3-1

They shouldn't have won the first game for sure, but their underlying stats were a tire fire.

Probably deserved a better fate in Pittsburgh and Washington ... record is probably where it should be overall.

No point in removing any games from either the win / loss column or the underlying stats in my mind. Fools game.

[Kipper_3434]

Tank hard now, cause we can't tank next season thanks to Monahan trade.

[dino7c]

by this logic Vegas was a "non playoff team" all last season

all those teams that lost to them lol

[mrdonkey]

Starting to look as though 'middling' might be giving the team a bit too much credit. They look like a lottery team with nothing to play for, and the stats back up the eye test here. Just a real mess that could take the better part of a decade to come back from.

I have no idea how the novella of conditions on that pick going to Montreal shakes down, but it would actually be quite on brand for the Flames to finally win a franchise-changing pick just to give it to the Habs. A cherry on the poop sundae.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

Starting to look as though 'middling' might be giving the team a bit too much credit. They look like a lottery team with nothing to play for, and the stats back up the eye test here. Just a real mess that could take the better part of a decade to come back from.

I have no idea how the novella of conditions on that pick going to Montreal shakes down, but it would actually be quite on brand for the Flames to finally win a franchise-changing pick just to give it to the Habs. A cherry on the poop sundae.

What stats are those?

The Flames are 12th in expected goal splits, 5th in high danger splits, 19th in scoring chance splits and dead last in PDO.

If anything the stats say they are better than what the eye test is telling us ...

Calgary has played some strong hockey, but lacked the finish when they do. Debacle in Detroit to finish the trip though.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Coming in to this game Detroit was 4-1 and had league leading 15.3 shooting %. Calgary was 26th at 8.2 %

Detroit now has 30 GF in 6 games and this is the third time they’ve put up 6

Not really playing like a ‘non playoff team’

Detroit is a good team. I figured that would be the hardest game on the trip.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Bingo

What stats are those?

The Flames are 12th in expected goal splits, 5th in high danger splits, 19th in scoring chance splits and dead last in PDO.

If anything the stats say they are better than what the eye test is telling us ...

Calgary has played some strong hockey, but lacked the finish when they do. Debacle in Detroit to finish the trip though.

That's all good, but that was the narrative last season to a degree, and with the same group not able to finish chances again already, I'm very doubtful that even improved goaltending (which Markstrom appears to be providing) all season will be enough.

We can follow the "it's too early" narrative - I buy it to a minor extent. But when the group is nearly identical to last season and the staff isn't completely re-inventing the wheel, I'm watching these next 4-5 games very closely to start formulating my judgement on what this team is capable of this year.

The fact some of the teams maligned players from last season aren't playing much better than they have been is quite concerning given how much onus was put on last year being a coaching issue. It's getting downright scary how bad this could get with the contract situations and possible additional extensions brewing.