Ongoing General Automotive Thread 2.0

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by pylon

Honestly, it's just a feel thing. It's so hard to explain. It's almost no different than your first few time on skates or a snowboard. You suck at it and gradually get the feel. Even without profesional instruction, you'll figure it out. I just don't think a lot of drivers are taking that time to figure it out.

Driving cars with no traction control and RWD back in the day when snow tires were an absolute luxury, inevitably lead to quite a few hit curbs and spin outs until you just figured out the limitations of throttle, counter-steering, brakes etc. You just kinda got used to it over time. And got better. These cars were the norm not the exception.

However, in a situation where you start breaking traction on a launch, my first instinct is to power through and countersteer through it. If you hit brakes when you're out of control, whatever you are pointed at is what you are going to hit if you lock up with your wheel turned at high speed. Especially if you end up in gravel or on grass. ABS or not.

As counter intuitive as it seems, braking can be the dumbest thing you can do in certain situations.

However, these rules are typically going to apply in a performance driving/track scenario. RWD cars now have so many traction aids.... ESP, ASR, ABS etc... in an every day, getting groceries scenario, you just drive like every other car out there.

It's black ice, track situations, being an idiot at Cross Iron Mills as shown above, you have to shift the mentality. Especially if you've thrown it in track mode or turned off traction control. 250 HP Camaros and Mustangs were already a handful back in the day. Now stuff is coming off the showroom floor with double that and making bad things happen twice as fast.

My stock '87 Mustang GT had a 0-60 of 6.2. I made it faster, but still, that was considered quick back then. I just test drove an Audi S3 this morning and walked away thinking, meh. 0-60 was 4.3 and it felt boringly slow lol. We're so spoiled with acceleration right now it's nuts.

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by pylon

Honestly, it's just a feel thing. It's so hard to explain. It's almost no different than your first few time on skates or a snowboard. You suck at it and gradually get the feel. Even without profesional instruction, you'll figure it out. I just don't think a lot of drivers are taking that time to figure it out.

Driving cars with no traction control and RWD back in the day when snow tires were an absolute luxury, inevitably lead to quite a few hit curbs and spin outs until you just figured out the limitations of throttle, counter-steering, brakes etc. You just kinda got used to it over time. And got better. These cars were the norm not the exception.

However, in a situation where you start breaking traction on a launch, my first instinct is to power through and countersteer through it. If you hit brakes when you're out of control, whatever you are pointed at is what you are going to hit if you lock up with your wheel turned at high speed. Especially if you end up in gravel or on grass. ABS or not.

As counter intuitive as it seems, braking can be the dumbest thing you can do in certain situations.

However, these rules are typically going to apply in a performance driving/track scenario. RWD cars now have so many traction aids.... ESP, ASR, ABS etc... in an every day, getting groceries scenario, you just drive like every other car out there.

It's black ice, track situations, being an idiot at Cross Iron Mills as shown above, you have to shift the mentality. Especially if you've thrown it in track mode or turned off traction control. 250 HP Camaros and Mustangs were already a handful back in the day. Now stuff is coming off the showroom floor with double that and making bad things happen twice as fast.

Yeah, I guess I was part of a group of drivers that learned to deal with temporary loss of control where using the brakes was taught as the absolute last resort. It was always acceleration, steering and letting the vehicle lose energy slowly on its own without heavy use of brakes.

I was basically taught to never use the brakes for braking if the wheels were not facing straight. Brakes to maintain a speed while turning on a ramp, maybe slow down etc. Sure, but not stopping and definitely not in a wobble situation.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by Sliver

My stock '87 Mustang GT had a 0-60 of 6.2. I made it faster, but still, that was considered quick back then. I just test drove an Audi S3 this morning and walked away thinking, meh. 0-60 was 4.3 and it felt boringly slow lol. We're so spoiled with acceleration right now it's nuts.

To me, the power of trucks is the mind blasting one.

You can get a Ford F350 powerstroke with the H.O. option and have 500 HP and 1200 ft/lbs of torque.

This is more power than semi's had in the 80's.

And these things are rated to tow 38,000 pounds if set up right. It's insane.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by pylon

To me, the power of trucks is the mind blasting one.

You can get a Ford F350 powerstroke with the H.O. option and have 500 HP and 1200 ft/lbs of torque.

This is more power than semi's had in the 80's.

And these things are rated to tow 38,000 pounds if set up right. It's insane.

That is totally incredible, without a doubt.

I'm cursed to not like trucks, though. I have an F-150 for my work so I drive it quite a bit. Can even lease a new one and it's a complete write-off (Raptor if I wanted), but I can't even be bothered to go truck shopping so I'm just sitting here with my 2016 XLT Sport still. They do nothing for me. Throw a million horsepower at a truck and it's still just not that fun to me. I get sitting up high and all that is attractive to people, but not to me. It's just a tool/appliance - very useful and I absolutely need one, but it brings me no joy.

Cars, though, I obsess over. Watch hours of car reviews and first-person drives every week. My favourite are those ASMR night drives with a dude that doesn't even speak...just cruises around in a car I like.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by photon

But it's been so long since I've driven an RWD car I'd probably want to take some kind of skid training, or at least practice on a big open lot.

Not sure if anyone offers this anymore, but years ago a couple of the car clubs held driving courses out on Ghost Lake in winter. It was great chance to hoon around and test traction limits without too much risk.

Spoiler!

I still see a lot of cars out on ghost lake in the winter, although those are mostly people out ice fishing.

[DownInFlames]

I'm not a Cayenne fan (the same goes for sport SUVs in general) but put a rally livery on it and it transforms. Are they decently capable off-road or on trails?

[TorqueDog]

The Cayenne is damned decent off-road once you take the sporty street tires off in favour of some meaty A/T or M/T tires. It has really good ground clearance with height-adjustable suspension, but one down-side is that they got rid of the low-range gear in the transfer case starting in 2011. Can still get locking differentials in them though.

If you could get an early Cayenne that is mechanically sound but aesthetically ugly (early Cayennes are kind of ugly but I mean bad paint, etc.), it would make a good off-roader.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by DoubleF

Honest question. I've been told in the past by older drivers that for RWD situations, when you enter into an evasive maneuver/recovery scenario, the method to recover in an FR is different than a FF or 4WD/AWD vehicle.

The biggest difference is if you give a RWD too much throttle, and the rear end starts to slip, the instinct to suddenly lift off the throttle will exacerbate it.

When you let off the throttle suddenly, the weight shifts toward the front wheels, so your rear wheels lose traction, and now the rear starts sliding even faster in the direction it was already going. To recover, you want to keep the throttle on, and counter steer to get out of the spin, then you can let off the throttle and brake.

In a FWD car, this doesn't really happen often, because if you give it too much throttle, the front wheels slip, and you'll start understeering. You can do it in a FWD car by taking a corner at the limit and suddenly getting off the throttle, however.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by Sliver

That is totally incredible, without a doubt.

I'm cursed to not like trucks, though. I have an F-150 for my work so I drive it quite a bit. Can even lease a new one and it's a complete write-off (Raptor if I wanted), but I can't even be bothered to go truck shopping so I'm just sitting here with my 2016 XLT Sport still. They do nothing for me. Throw a million horsepower at a truck and it's still just not that fun to me. I get sitting up high and all that is attractive to people, but not to me. It's just a tool/appliance - very useful and I absolutely need one, but it brings me no joy.

Cars, though, I obsess over. Watch hours of car reviews and first-person drives every week. My favourite are those ASMR night drives with a dude that doesn't even speak...just cruises around in a car I like.

When we first got married my wife used to say that she thinks I'm a truck guy. I always liked fast cars and didn't think I needed a truck. 15 years later we're always borrowing her dad's truck, and then we bought the truck off of her mom after he passed away. We mostly used it to pull the 5th wheel RV that we also bought off of her but with teens starting to drive I wound up driving the truck all the time. I really loved it. It was technically not enough truck for the 5th wheel so I just bought a 3/4 tonne and now I have two trucks... I can't believe how much I love driving a big truck!

It's impressive how much trucks can do compared to 20 years ago though. My sister-in-law has my father-in-law's other truck, it was a '98 F250 diesel and it's towing capacity is 10,000 lbs. I hooked it up to the 5th wheel and it did better at pulling it than my RAM 1500. So I bought a '18 F250 gas which is rated to tow 19,000 lbs (Diesel is 22,000 lbs). Technically the same truck but 20 years newer has more than double the towing capacity.

I can't wait until 1/2 tonnes are rated to pull 20,000 lbs in 2043!

[GoinAllTheWay]

Anyone have a suggestion for a place to take an 08 Ram for a full coolant flush and refill? Not something I wanna do myself and apparently you can put the wrong kind of coolant in?


I'm in Braeside so something I could do on my lunch hour would be great.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by GoinAllTheWay

Anyone have a suggestion for a place to take an 08 Ram for a full coolant flush and refill? Not something I wanna do myself and apparently you can put the wrong kind of coolant in?


I'm in Braeside so something I could do on my lunch hour would be great.

I don't know specifically about the maintenance you're looking to get done but I've been very pleased with my experiences at NAPA Braeside.

[GoinAllTheWay]

Ok, cool, thanks. Driven past them numerous times but didn't realize they have a garage. Assumed it was just a parts store.

[GoinAllTheWay]

Thanks for that recommendation. Called them and they do it for a reasonable price and perform it exactly they way I was hoping they would.

[photon]

I think my car needs some transmission work. I've been getting little shudders or stuttering while accelerating, usually only in the first few gears. It was about time for a transmission fluid change so I did that but it didn't fix it and it seems to be progressively getting worse. It's an automatic.

Should I just go to my usual service shop, or is this a case where I should go to a transmission specialist? And if so any recommendations?

[TorqueDog]

Transmission specialist. Could be slipping bands, could be a torque converter problem. As for who, someone else will have to answer.

[GoinAllTheWay]

There's that transmission shop across the street from Back Alley bar on Macleod Tr. Never used them but that shop has been there as long as I've been alive so they must be doing something right.

[Fuzz]

Could try a scanner to see if there are any codes, too.

[photon]

Oh yeah I never though of that, will have to dig it out.

[photon]

The transmission guy looked at it and he doesn't think it's a transmission problem after a couple of test drives.

And now neither do I, when I went to drive home my car started accelerating rough or jerky basically constantly part way home.. then when I stopped and idled it was shaking when idling too.. even in neutral. Less pronounced when in park but still there.

And the engine light started coming on and off intermittently too.

I called my mechanic and they think it's a misfire problem, and that would make sense given what I've been feeling for a while.

So my question is it's about 16km from my home to the garage. What's the risk of driving it to the garage with the misfire if I'm gentle and take slower roads? Or am I better off just getting it towed?

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by photon

So my question is it's about 16km from my home to the garage. What's the risk of driving it to the garage with the misfire if I'm gentle and take slower roads? Or am I better off just getting it towed?

The most likely scenario is that it isn't likely that you'll cause serious damage by driving a mere 16 KM to your shop with a misfire. Over a longer period of time, you'll foul spark plugs (provided that isn't the root cause of the misfire in the first place), get horrible economy due to wasted and uncombusted fuel, and crap performance (since you're missing a cylinder or more).

Far less likely scenario: If your vehicle's catalytic converter(s) is in the engine exhaust manifold(s) (instead of a post-manifold pipe farther back from the heads), this changes things as a misfire can damage the catalysts, and cause catalyst material to be ingested into the combustion chamber(s) of the engine back through the exhaust port of the cylinder head. If this happens, well, sh-t just got real because that's a great way to end up needing a new engine.