[Signing] Matthew Phillips to Capitals 1yr 1 way $775K - Page 23 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Lanny_McDonald · 10-04-2023, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edslunch

Not indispensable, just passable for 6-8 minutes of even strength time. If a team has enough depth to spread minutes around this could work.

There's the rub. Phillips has to play with top line talent to be effective but then needs sheltered minutes. It's why he is a unicorn (more of a leprechaun) and hasn't got a chance.

Textcritic · 10-04-2023, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

There's the rub. Phillips has to play with top line talent to be effective but then needs sheltered minutes. It's why he is a unicorn (more of a leprechaun) and hasn't got a chance.

I don't believe this is true. I mean, yes, I think Phillips's offense is basically neutered away from the top-line, but he has shown that he can keep his head above water when playing down the lineup.

Lanny_McDonald · 10-04-2023, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Textcritic

but he has shown that he can keep his head above water when playing down the lineup.

When did this happen? He has three NHL games under his belt and played sheltered minutes in all of those. When has he shown he can keep his head above anything in the NHL?

gvitaly · 10-04-2023, 10:29 AM

Isn't it easier just to wait and see what season Phillips is going to have? Also, if he has a really good season it's far from a guarantee he's staying in WSH.

Lanny_McDonald · 10-04-2023, 10:34 AM

Agreed. Let's wait and see if he makes the team, what role he has, and if he is able to keep his position in the NHL. As someone pointed out, Ty Rattie was a scoring darling in the 2018-19 preseason and then fell off the proverbial cliff. Have to see how this plays out.

Bingo · 10-04-2023, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

When did this happen? He has three NHL games under his belt and played sheltered minutes in all of those. When has he shown he can keep his head above anything in the NHL?

This just isn't true.

His sample size is non existent, but when he did play he spent 65% of his time with Mikael Backlund and wasn't sheltered at all.

He had the lowest ice time split against bottom NHLers of any forward on the roster last year at 30.5%. His split against elite was 2nd on the team behind Andrew Mangiapane.

Only 12.5 minutes of ice time, but they weren't sheltered at all.

Nick Ritchie, Radim Zohorna, Walker Dueher, Trevor Lewis and Milan Lucic were sheltered.

Phillips wasn't.

Lanny_McDonald · 10-04-2023, 10:41 AM

If what you're saying is true Bingo, then Phillips would have been in the lineup all the time. The reality is he played limited minutes and sheltered minutes which is why his fancy stats looked so good. Playing with the team's best defensive forward is way of being sheltered for crying out loud. It's why Tkachuk was plopped on a line with Backlund and Frolik, to shelter the kid from defensive responsibility.

Textcritic · 10-04-2023, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bingo

This just isn't true.

His sample size is non existent, but when he did play he spent 65% of his time with Mikael Backlund and wasn't sheltered at all.

He had the lowest ice time split against bottom NHLers of any forward on the roster last year at 30.5%. His split against elite was 2nd on the team behind Andrew Mangiapane.

Only 12.5 minutes of ice time, but they weren't sheltered at all.

Nick Ritchie, Radim Zohorna, Walker Dueher, Trevor Lewis and Milan Lucic were sheltered.

Phillips wasn't.

Thanks. I don't know where to find the numbers, but my recollection was that this was the case.

Attention to data does not seem to be Lanny's forté.

Sent from my moto g stylus 5G (2022) using Tapatalk

Strange Brew · 10-04-2023, 11:16 AM

Well the main point that Bingo is that the numbers prove nothing. Can't form a conclusion off such an immaterial sample size.

Lanny_McDonald · 10-04-2023, 11:35 AM

Text, I question your recollections as much as I question Bingo's stats.

Matthew Phillips played a grand total of 12:23 of even strength hockey for the Flames last year. A total of 5:41 on the PP. He played 9:21 (1:34 of PP time) in 5-4 loss to the Leafs on December 10th (generating 1 shot on goal) and then 8:43 (4:07 of PP time) in a 2-1 loss to the Canadiens on the 12th (taking a penalty and going goose egg across the board).

Hard to generate such gaudy stats and make such an impact to someone's recollection of the game when a player was hardly on the ice.

Bingo · 10-04-2023, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

If what you're saying is true Bingo, then Phillips would have been in the lineup all the time. The reality is he played limited minutes and sheltered minutes which is why his fancy stats looked so good. Playing with the team's best defensive forward is way of being sheltered for crying out loud. It's why Tkachuk was plopped on a line with Backlund and Frolik, to shelter the kid from defensive responsibility.

It is true.

It's tracked and he wasn't sheltered.

Mikael Backlund is never sheltered, so if you play with Mikael Backlund you get tough deployment.

Bingo · 10-04-2023, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Text, I question your recollections as much as I question Bingo's stats.

Matthew Phillips played a grand total of 12:23 of even strength hockey for the Flames last year. A total of 5:41 on the PP. He played 9:21 (1:34 of PP time) in 5-4 loss to the Leafs on December 10th (generating 1 shot on goal) and then 8:43 (4:07 of PP time) in a 2-1 loss to the Canadiens on the 12th (taking a penalty and going goose egg across the board).

Hard to generate such gaudy stats and make such an impact to someone's recollection of the game when a player was hardly on the ice.

They're not my stats.

I said sample size was miniscule.

You threw out "sheltered" without any supporting data at all.

Textcritic · 10-04-2023, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Text, I question your recollections as much as I question Bingo's stats.

Matthew Phillips played a grand total of 12:23 of even strength hockey for the Flames last year. A total of 5:41 on the PP. He played 9:21 (1:34 of PP time) in 5-4 loss to the Leafs on December 10th (generating 1 shot on goal) and then 8:43 (4:07 of PP time) in a 2-1 loss to the Canadiens on the 12th (taking a penalty and going goose egg across the board).

Hard to generate such gaudy stats and make such an impact to someone's recollection of the game when a player was hardly on the ice.

Yeah, the sample size is small enough to be basically meaningless, but from the very sparse amounts that Phillips has played in the NHL, I remember him not being a liability on the ice. That's it.

Whereas you asserted this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

He has three NHL games under his belt and played sheltered minutes in all of those.

...which is demonstrably false, based on the available data.

SuperMatt18 · 10-04-2023, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Text, I question your recollections as much as I question Bingo's stats.

Matthew Phillips played a grand total of 12:23 of even strength hockey for the Flames last year. A total of 5:41 on the PP. He played 9:21 (1:34 of PP time) in 5-4 loss to the Leafs on December 10th (generating 1 shot on goal) and then 8:43 (4:07 of PP time) in a 2-1 loss to the Canadiens on the 12th (taking a penalty and going goose egg across the board).

Hard to generate such gaudy stats and make such an impact to someone's recollection of the game when a player was hardly on the ice.

So you're saying the sample size is too small and he didn't get enough opportunity to actually generate a decision one way or another.

Because when I read "A player was hardly on the ice" that is what my mind immediately jumps to, and really has been the issue the whole time.

Whether you think the player can be an NHL player or not...it undisputable that he was never rewarded for his strong AHL play with an real and extended opportunity at the NHL level.

Lanny_McDonald · 10-04-2023, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bingo

It is true.

It's tracked and he wasn't sheltered.

Yeah, he was. You're making it sound like Phillips was stapled to Backlund, which he was not. According to the shift charts Backlund playing with Phillips looks to have been PP related. The shifts and time on the ice don't match up otherwise.

Quote:

Mikael Backlund is never sheltered, so if you play with Mikael Backlund you get tough deployment.

Backlund is never sheltered but that doesn't mean anyone who takes a shift with him is not sheltered. If you have a young guy you want to protect their defensive deficiencies you play them with your most responsible player. Phillips was played in situations where he could most succeed. Offensive zone starts with players that could cover his ass. It's why he played mostly with Lewis (according to shift charts) and then Backlund on PP2. You're right, its logged, you just have to read the logs and not rely solely on the summaries.

Lanny_McDonald · 10-04-2023, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bingo

You threw out "sheltered" without any supporting data at all.

Getting 12 minutes of 5-on-5 time and 18 minutes total ice time over 120 minutes of game time is the definition of being sheltered.

SuperMatt18 · 10-04-2023, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Getting 12 minutes of 5-on-5 time and 18 minutes total ice time over 120 minutes of game time is the definition of being sheltered.

Partially true ... but to me it's the definition of not really getting a real opportunity.

FanIn80 · 10-04-2023, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

Not only boo him but we should chuck screwdrivers at him at every stoppage.

Wait. Why aren't we already doing this when Robertson's here?

Lanny_McDonald · 10-04-2023, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Partially true ... but to me it's the definition of not really getting a real opportunity.

I would agree with that as well. Phillips didn't get what some fans view as an opportunity to play in games. Don't disagree. The coach didn't think he deserved that opportunity. I think that is part of the reason that coach is no longer with us. He would make the young players over perform in practice to prove to him they could be trusted. Never liked that, but that was Sutter.

Bingo · 10-04-2023, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Yeah, he was. You're making it sound like Phillips was stapled to Backlund, which he was not. According to the shift charts Backlund playing with Phillips looks to have been PP related. The shifts and time on the ice don't match up otherwise.

Backlund is never sheltered but that doesn't mean anyone who takes a shift with him is not sheltered. If you have a young guy you want to protect their defensive deficiencies you play them with your most responsible player. Phillips was played in situations where he could most succeed. Offensive zone starts with players that could cover his ass. It's why he played mostly with Lewis (according to shift charts) and then Backlund on PP2. You're right, its logged, you just have to read the logs and not rely solely on the summaries.

The definition of sheltered is keeping them away from top opposition.

Backlund is certainly well established as a guy that helps to develop young players, but anyone playing with Backlund is on the ice against the best of the best, and therefore isn't sheltered.

Tkachuk is a special player, and was able to play that role with Backlund for a huge chunk of minutes.

Phillips only did it for 8 minutes so who the hell knows, but he certainly wasn't sheltered in his five on five time in Calgary (totalling 12 minutes).