MacKenzie Weegar rocks

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Maybe. But I do wonder how much they actually pursued other deals or negotiations. From a Blues perspective, Tkachuk is a clear upgrade on Kyrou so that more than makes sense for them. Carolina is knocked for not having a true superstar. Tkachuk could have helped them big time in that area. I don't think a deal around Necas and Jarvis is unrealistic considering both were career high 40 pts players and Tkachuk just put up over 100pts. Teams might have low balled and Florida made a strong offer and Brad then zeroed in on that deal. I do wonder if he even tried to use the Florida deal as leverage to renegotiate with other teams. I think the organization felt a bit embarrassed and resentful with Gaudreau and Tkachuk bolting, and they were dead set on not letting that take down the team, and the Florida deal probably did address that best in the present.

Again, no hint from any sources that Jarvis was part of any proposal. It was likely Necas + 1st + B prospect or depth roster player.

People in the Flames camp (not just Treliving) have commented that Florida had the best offer by far. And given the limited options the Flames had (effectively only three teams), that’s not hard to believe.

[GioforPM]

It’s funny how no matter what is reported and what the facts were on the ground, people insist on inserting a narrative to fit an agenda.

Frankly, I’ve always been shocked Fla gave up as much as they did. I bet so are St. Louis and NJ. They figured Treliving was in a corner and their bids reflected that.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

It’s funny how no matter what is reported and what the facts were on the ground, people insist on inserting a narrative to fit an agenda.

Frankly, I’ve always been shocked Fla gave up as much as they did. I bet so are St. Louis and NJ. They figured Treliving was in a corner and their bids reflected that.

Same. The other thing is people forget Huberdeau was just coming off a +100 point season.

The trade was a home run for Treliving. It was the signings and giving away a 1st that should be subject to scrutiny.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Same. The other thing is people forget Huberdeau was just coming off a +100 point season.

The trade was a home run for Treliving. It was the signings and giving away a 1st that should be subject to scrutiny.

I don't mind an opinion that the Flames lost the trade, or that you don't like the trade.

I'm even open to the idea that some might like other teams offers because of futures and how the franchise sets up.

What I find gobsmacking is the notion that Calgary (Treliving) chose a weaker deal ... because. And a guy with a history of being in on everything didn't talk to other teams or push the envelope to get the best deal (from his vantage point) that he could.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I don't mind an opinion that the Flames lost the trade, or that you don't like the trade.

I'm even open to the idea that some might like other teams offers because of futures and how the franchise sets up.

What I find gobsmacking is the notion that Calgary (Treliving) chose a weaker deal ... because. And a guy with a history of being in on everything didn't talk to other teams or push the envelope to get the best deal (from his vantage point) that he could.

I think Treliving was pretty overrated but pretty much everyone was blown away by that trade in the hockey world. His management leading up to the situation is the biggest mark on him

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by Locke

Are Weegar rocks something like 'Pet Rocks?'

Can you get them at the FanAttic?

Weez nuts.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Bonded

I think Treliving was pretty overrated but pretty much everyone was blown away by that trade in the hockey world. His management leading up to the situation is the biggest mark on him

I liked the guy.

With Conroy marking his territory though it has opened my eyes to the fact that Murray Edwards may not have been to blame for some of the direction that we've seen in recent years.

But I always judge GMs based on what I think of the moves they made when they made them, and it was hard to be too upset with a lot of the major moves that Treliving made (my opinion). He bet on a core that couldn't get it done, but I honestly thought they were building something that was going to compete year over year for a half decade.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I liked the guy.

With Conroy marking his territory though it has opened my eyes to the fact that Murray Edwards may not have been to blame for some of the direction that we've seen in recent years.

But I always judge GMs based on what I think of the moves they made when they made them, and it was hard to be too upset with a lot of the major moves that Treliving made (my opinion). He bet on a core that couldn't get it done, but I honestly thought they were building something that was going to compete year over year for a half decade.

With time having passed, I actually think the opposite of this.

He kept throwing bad money out the window trying to support a core with veterans that were outright bad. He blew precious dollars and assets on things he didn't need but believed he did. The organization as a whole didn't properly embrace their young players (and that seems to be a big shift with Connie already).

Bennett was kicked around and never given the opportunity to own a role.

Tkachuk's impact was muted until his final season here, and he should have been given the Captaincy.

Valimaki was driven out of the organization.

That's three first round picks (two quite high) that had impacts limited by the organization, and one outright driven out of the organization (coaching counts).

They brought in Hamonic, Brouwer, Neal, Smith, and Elliott to support the core and all it did was screw things up. Probably comes to the general impatience of Tree (or Tree + Ownership?)

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

With time having passed, I actually think the opposite of this.

He kept throwing bad money out the window trying to support a core with veterans that were outright bad. He blew precious dollars and assets on things he didn't need but believed he did. The organization as a whole didn't properly embrace their young players (and that seems to be a big shift with Connie already).

Bennett was kicked around and never given the opportunity to own a role.

Tkachuk's impact was muted until his final season here, and he should have been given the Captaincy.

Valimaki was driven out of the organization.

That's three first round picks (two quite high) that had impacts limited by the organization, and one outright driven out of the organization (coaching counts).

They brought in Hamonic, Brouwer, Neal, Smith, and Elliott to support the core and all it did was screw things up. Probably comes to the general impatience of Tree (or Tree + Ownership?)

Moving futures is supporting the core, it's not the opposite.

The rest is just opinion to be honest.

Bennett didn't work out here, but had opportunity; it's on both sides.
Valimaki played his way out of the organization. He was terrible.
Tkachuk was a young player that had lots of opportunity, not sure what you mean there (Sutter was hard on him for the half season for sure)

[TheIronMaiden]

If you want to bash BT, it would not be for how he handled young players and prospects.

It should be for
1 Signing players in decline to contracts that were too rich and too long
2 trading away draft picks for mid tier players.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

With time having passed, I actually think the opposite of this.

He kept throwing bad money out the window trying to support a core with veterans that were outright bad. He blew precious dollars and assets on things he didn't need but believed he did. The organization as a whole didn't properly embrace their young players (and that seems to be a big shift with Connie already).

Bennett was kicked around and never given the opportunity to own a role.

Tkachuk's impact was muted until his final season here, and he should have been given the Captaincy.

Valimaki was driven out of the organization.

That's three first round picks (two quite high) that had impacts limited by the organization, and one outright driven out of the organization (coaching counts).

They brought in Hamonic, Brouwer, Neal, Smith, and Elliott to support the core and all it did was screw things up. Probably comes to the general impatience of Tree (or Tree + Ownership?)

I agree with this. I think Treliving’s biggest downfall was not being able to keep his franchise players. Tkachuk should have been given the C as soon as Gio left (unless the org was very confident he was leaving when he did). The Hamonic trade was an absolute disaster of asset management. 3 high picks on an overrated bottom pair D that was sold to the fanbase as a top pairing guy. Brouwer, Neal were terrible signings, and the Elliott trade was terrible.

Ultimately he had a team that won the division in twice in a 4 year span boasting 50 win seasons in both years. He had 2 franchise wingers on his hands and he couldn’t keep them. While the summer of Brad was admirable it was a reaction to a failed plan and put the team down the path of paying older players who never suited up for the Flames to max term deals. Because that plan failedI am very happy the extension for Tree never materialized even if he was the one to decline it. The time to promote Conroy was now.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

If you want to bash BT, it would not be for how he handled young players and prospects.

It should be for
1 Signing players in decline to contracts that were too rich and too long
2 trading away draft picks for mid tier players.

Coaches as well.

Pro scouting and cap management was pretty bad with Treliving.
I do think if he didn't get to cute with Gaudreau in the offseason before he left then the Flames would still have Tkachuk and Gaudreau.
Bridging Tkachuk because of the Neal, Brouwer, and Frolik contracts was also a kick in the nuts in hindsight

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Coaches as well.

Pro scouting and cap management was pretty bad with Treliving.
I do think if he didn't get to cute with Gaudreau in the offseason before he left then the Flames would still have Tkachuk and Gaudreau.
Bridging Tkachuk because of the Neal, Brouwer, and Frolik contracts was also a kick in the nuts in hindsight

I'd need some evidence of "cute".

Gaudreau wanting to sign a big extension coming off a pretty poor season was likely asking for more than the team wanted to pay. That's his job to hold the line.

With hindsight and the explosion season it was likely a bargain, but I don't remember a lot of 100+ point predictions on this site before the puck dropped in the fall of 2021

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I'd need some evidence of "cute".

Gaudreau wanting to sign a big extension coming off a pretty poor season was likely asking for more than the team wanted to pay. That's his job to hold the line.

With hindsight and the explosion season it was likely a bargain, but I don't remember a lot of 100+ point predictions on this site before the puck dropped in the fall of 2021

All OJ talk but there was apparently a reasonable offer from Gaudreau's side in the summer in the 8-9 range which I don't think is wild for his production up to that point. If true and Tre was sticking with Gaudreau as a core piece then I think he got cute.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Bonded

All OJ talk but there was apparently a reasonable offer from Gaudreau's side in the summer in the 8-9 range which I don't think is wild for his production up to that point. If true and Tre was sticking with Gaudreau as a core piece then I think he got cute.

Was he a $8.5M player two years ago at less than a point per game?

You could certainly argue that if he was to sign this summer with contract values going up, but at a moment in time that was the 85-95 point guys.

As I said ... his job to hold the line. And honestly he almost got him done the next summer but for a last second change of heart.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Was he a $8.5M player two years ago at less than a point per game?

You could certainly argue that if he was to sign this summer with contract values going up, but at a moment in time that was the 85-95 point guys.

As I said ... his job to hold the line. And honestly he almost got him done the next summer but for a last second change of heart.

I think 8.5 would have been fair. It wasn't a discount but it wasn't a crazy ask. He drove the offence for the Flames and was a .95ppg player at that point in his career.

Hold the line on Gaudreau but overpay Neal, Brouwer, etc...

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Bonded

I think 8.5 would have been fair. It wasn't a discount but it wasn't a crazy ask. He drove the offence for the Flames and was a .95ppg player at that point in his career.

Hold the line on Gaudreau but overpay Neal, Brouwer, etc...

Except he'd just come off of two .7 ppg seasons. Evidence was that he was arguably the one heading into a decline.

This was post Neal and Brouwer (and Neal was signed for $5M which seemed fair for a perennial 20 man). Brouwer was overpaid, but he was also bought out to make room for higher salaried guys.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Bonded

I think 8.5 would have been fair. It wasn't a discount but it wasn't a crazy ask. He drove the offence for the Flames and was a .95ppg player at that point in his career.

Hold the line on Gaudreau but overpay Neal, Brouwer, etc...

Every GM has UFA foibles, and the UFA market is always more expensive than RFAs

You hope you pick the right UFAs though, and he surely didn't every time. He did have successful UFA signings though.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Except he'd just come off of two .7 ppg seasons. Evidence was that he was arguably the one heading into a decline.

This was post Neal and Brouwer (and Neal was signed for $5M which seemed fair for a perennial 20 man). Brouwer was overpaid, but he was also bought out to make room for higher salaried guys.

He didn't though. 2018/19 he was 1.2, 2019/20 he was .82, 20/21 he was .87
Rough hand is 100k per point for forwards. So 8-9 was a reasonable ask. There was questions around his ability to perform in the playoffs etc but that becomes a different discussion around trading him.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Bonded

He didn't though. 2018/19 he was 1.2, 2019/20 he was .82, 20/21 he was .87
Rough hand is 100k per point for forwards. So 8-9 was a reasonable ask. There was questions around his ability to perform in the playoffs etc but that becomes a different discussion around trading him.

Coming out of the COVID seasons? No. I distinctly remember considerable doubt among most fans about Gaudreau's ability to be a premiere play-driving winger moving forward. In retrospect, this would have been a good deal, but things looked VASTLY different on the other side of this, heading into the 2021–22 season.