Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[wireframe]

Servicing the federal debt is typically stimulates the economy, it's not just wasting money. The federal debt is held mostly by Canadian banks and individuals as bonds. When we service the debt, we're paying the agreed upon bond returns by creating new money (they literally just change the account balance on a computer). It's not something we have to pay back in taxes later. Servicing the federal debt is nothing like the interest payments on my mortgage.

There is a separate discussion about whether injecting brand new money into the economy in this way causes inflation or not. My opinion is that it really depends on where that money goes because we're not on the gold standard any more. I think this money is contributing to house price inflation. But, again, that's a separate discussion.

[CaptainCrunch]

CTV had a poll today, where 47% of Canadians are living paycheck to paycheck. Premiers are sending letters to the BOC telling them not to bump the interest rates

(BC and I think NFLD)

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

CTV had a poll today, where 47% of Canadians are living paycheck to paycheck. Premiers are sending letters to the BOC telling them not to bump the interest rates

(BC and I think NFLD)

I am surprised that number is so low.

[Azure]

What percentage of Canadians own their home / renting and have no mortgage?

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Azure

What percentage of Canadians own their home / renting and have no mortgage?

Years of 2% interest rates meant that owning your home made less sense than borrowing money and investing it, or using extra money to invest rather than pay down mortgages. There have been countless posts on this very website and it was definitely conventional wisdom. So to now point at people, 1 year into escalated interest rates, and finger wave (not saying you’re doing this) at people who have large mortgage balances feels a bit off to me. Feels a bit hindsighty. I think we are going to see debt loads start to get paid down dramatically over the next 3 years by many Canadians.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

I’m not convinced there is an appetite for tax increases right now. With more people living paycheque to paycheque, and cost of living as high as it is.

Taxing more so the government can spend doesn’t make sense to me at this time.

I think it’s more that nobody has faith in our government that it’ll be spent properly.

How many billions have gone unaccounted for by our Federal government? Do they even know anymore? They sure aren’t transparent about it, so why on earth should taxation rise? Provincial taxes need to go up, but the UCP are idiots so that doesn’t give me faith it just won’t be dumped into like some moronic private school ideological pet project or other stupid thing rather than where is obviously, sorely, needs to go.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

I think it’s more that nobody has faith in our government that it’ll be spent properly.

How many billions have gone unaccounted for by our Federal government? Do they even know anymore? They sure aren’t transparent about it, so why on earth should taxation rise? Provincial taxes need to go up, but the UCP are idiots so that doesn’t give me faith it just won’t be dumped into like some moronic private school ideological pet project or other stupid thing rather than where is obviously, sorely, needs to go.

I hate to labour on this point, but as someone who specializes in taxation I find it really needs to be emphasized.

I deal with people from all walks of life, from low-income to Corporate Board Directors.

Most of them do not have a problem with paying their taxes. Until they turn on the news and see their Government wasting it.

And then they think: "I could do better. Why give that money to these clowns?"

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Years of 2% interest rates meant that owning your home made less sense than borrowing money and investing it, or using extra money to invest rather than pay down mortgages. There have been countless posts on this very website and it was definitely conventional wisdom. So to now point at people, 1 year into escalated interest rates, and finger wave (not saying you’re doing this) at people who have large mortgage balances feels a bit off to me. Feels a bit hindsighty. I think we are going to see debt loads start to get paid down dramatically over the next 3 years by many Canadians.

Not actually pointing fingers, just saying that if 50% of the population who are not living paycheck to paycheck, it could be because they have no mortgage.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Years of 2% interest rates meant that owning your home made less sense than borrowing money and investing it, or using extra money to invest rather than pay down mortgages. There have been countless posts on this very website and it was definitely conventional wisdom. So to now point at people, 1 year into escalated interest rates, and finger wave (not saying you’re doing this) at people who have large mortgage balances feels a bit off to me. Feels a bit hindsighty. I think we are going to see debt loads start to get paid down dramatically over the next 3 years by many Canadians.

I spent years working against that "conventional wisdom" and even though that may have been a logical thing to do, I didn't do it. I wanted to pay off my mortgage instead, even if that meant driving an old vehicle around that doesn't have Apple Carplay and vented seats. Well I did, and these high interest rates mean good returns on savings and not having them negatively affect me. So maybe "conventional wisdom" doesn't always trump gut instinct. And maybe people should take responsibilities for their own decisions.

This isn't too be smug against those who have real affordability issues through no fault of their own. Just that your decisions are yours, and many many people made a lot of poor financial decisions over the past decade. To say "they were told to" by people who's careers depend on them saying these things for business, welll...

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

To say "they were told to" by people who's careers depend on them saying these things for business, welll...

That's an under-rated observation, imo. Thinking about the incentives of people you deal with is super valuable.

One way to do this is ask: "how much money does the person giving this advice make if I follow it vs if I do the exact opposite."

This applies everywhere, not just financial advisors who get paid on invested funds but not mortgage paydown. I had a dentist who wanted to drill a bunch of "micro cavities". I asked him to show me the xray, and he said you couldn't see them on the xray yet. I got a second opinion and (my new) dentist said there wasn't anything there clinically either.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by Azure

Not actually pointing fingers, just saying that if 50% of the population who are not living paycheck to paycheck, it could be because they have no mortgage.

Part of the problem is, what does that even mean? In the same poll, 60% of respondents said their personal finances were "good" or "very good", which is pretty tough to reconcile with 47% effectively saying they have zero money (at least by my understanding of that term).

It's similar to the "50% of Canadians are $200 away from insolvency" at the same time as the median household having a $350K net worth and insolvencies barely budgeting despite high inflation creating tons of unexpected expenses for people.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Locke

I hate to labour on this point, but as someone who specializes in taxation I find it really needs to be emphasized.

I deal with people from all walks of life, from low-income to Corporate Board Directors.

Most of them do not have a problem with paying their taxes. Until they turn on the news and see their Government wasting it.

And then they think: "I could do better. Why give that money to these clowns?"

But what is wasted money. For me it would definitely be allowing oil and gas companies the ability to not pay their municipal taxes and giving churches tax exempt status. For others it is probably something different. People who say they don’t mind paying their taxes but get grumpy when it is “wasted” are just folks who don’t like paying taxes and then pick some pet project that they deem as “wasteful”

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by Azure

What percentage of Canadians own their home / renting and have no mortgage?

In Vancouver it's about 50%
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/real...ee-data-shows/

[flamesfever]

Originally Posted by opendoor

Part of the problem is, what does that even mean? In the same poll, 60% of respondents said their personal finances were "good" or "very good", which is pretty tough to reconcile with 47% effectively saying they have zero money (at least by my understanding of that term).

It's similar to the "50% of Canadians are $200 away from insolvency" at the same time as the median household having a $350K net worth and insolvencies barely budgeting despite high inflation creating tons of unexpected expenses for people.

I think you have to ask the question, "What factors separate the two groups you talk about?" or put another way, "What factors contribute to poverty in Canada?". They are:

1. Lack of education

2. Lack of skills

3. Lack of family support

4. Lack of jobs, or low paying jobs e.g. minimum wage, part-time, no benefits

5. Children

6. Inequality

7. Indigenous people

8. Recent immigrants

9. People with disabilities, including mental health and addiction issues

10. Etc.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

But what is wasted money. For me it would definitely be allowing oil and gas companies the ability to not pay their municipal taxes and giving churches tax exempt status. For others it is probably something different. People who say they don’t mind paying their taxes but get grumpy when it is “wasted” are just folks who don’t like paying taxes and then pick some pet project that they deem as “wasteful”

Well...thats a good point, but mostly, especially when dealing with people of high net-worth, what they dont like is budget gaps and 'missing money' which this current federal Government has.

Unfortunately I also find that wealthy people are attracted to Libertarianism ideas from people like Danielle Smith....which I find baffling.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

But what is wasted money. For me it would definitely be allowing oil and gas companies the ability to not pay their municipal taxes and giving churches tax exempt status. For others it is probably something different. People who say they don’t mind paying their taxes but get grumpy when it is “wasted” are just folks who don’t like paying taxes and then pick some pet project that they deem as “wasteful”

Your examples are missed opportunities to collect tax, not wasted money (post collection).

When people complain about wasted money, they're talking about the tax that has already been collected is going to wastseful allocations.
But I agree it's subjective & one person's waste project is a service another person really wants.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Locke

Well...thats a good point, but mostly, especially when dealing with people of high net-worth, what they dont like is budget gaps and 'missing money' which this current federal Government has.

Unfortunately I also find that wealthy people are attracted to Libertarianism ideas from people like Danielle Smith....which I find baffling.

I've found it's not that baffling if you understand the frame. If you believe that you're wealthy because you've earned it and others who are less wealthy are so because they haven't earned it, you'll gravitate to a belief system that confirms their special status

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

I've found it's not that baffling if you understand the frame. If you believe that you're wealthy because you've earned it and others who are less wealthy are so because they haven't earned it, you'll gravitate to a belief system that confirms their special status

The part that I find strange is...



So one would think that Free Universal Health Care, particularly for the elderly would be a high priority.

Unless you're so rich that you can get your health care wherever you want. I also have clients who do that.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

I am surprised that number is so low.

Hey some of us high rollers are living paycheque to two paycheques.

[Dentoman]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

This applies everywhere, not just financial advisors who get paid on invested funds but not mortgage paydown. I had a dentist who wanted to drill a bunch of "micro cavities". I asked him to show me the xray, and he said you couldn't see them on the xray yet. I got a second opinion and (my new) dentist said there wasn't anything there clinically either.

Definitely right decision. Always get a second opinion when you have doubts. I see people for second opinions on this type of treatment regularly. 75% of the time, I don’t end up doing a single filling