Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The big systemic problems in Canada today (housing costs, health care capacity) took decades to develop and affect people across jurisdictions. They can’t be laid at the feet of a single party or any single level of government.

The solutions are going to take decades, and require the cooperation of every party in government at the federal, provincial, and municipal level. That means implementing policies that have broad public support and will require broadly shared sacrifices. There’s no vilifying our way out of these problems. People who think that if only we vote X out of power things will turn around are kidding themselves.

Maybe not a single Canadian party, but yes they can be blamed on a single person. His name was Reagan. He pushed voodoo economics on the world and this is the end result. The is the world neoliberals want, the rich are richer and the poor are working slaves. This isn't the system being broken, this is the system working as intended.

The solution is the dreaded "socialism".

[flamesfever]

Originally Posted by btimbit

I dunno, I think it's a bit of both. The housing market is completely ####ed, grocery costs are outrageous, but other than that the sky isn't falling nearly as much as a lot of people seem to be claiming. We just came out of a major pandemic, these things are to be expected

A lot of it seems to be things that have been building for a very long time, like wages not increasing. It's nothing new but covid seemed to really hammer it home. Yet rather than work toward a pro labour solution people want shortcuts and a boogeyman to blame

How do you see the bolded happening?

[Yoho]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1692567527258214700

[Doctorfever]

Maybe things aren’t as bad as the numbers make it seem, I can’t say for sure. But is seems the lower income people and families are really struggling. Now people can shrug that off and say “times are tough”. But what do tough times for lower middle name earners lead to, potential homelessness, mental health issues, maybe drug addiction. Things that get talked about plenty in other threads.

Not to mention that when people can’t afford to feed themselves properly, they resorts to poorer quality food - we won’t see this for a number of years, but there will probably be a higher burden on our healthcare system from people not beating able to eat as healthy as they should.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Yoho

I disagree that the Conservatives would have led us to this same financial abyss.

This was 2020 Pierre sounding the alarm.

I think it’s naive to think there was no possible way for any different outcome.

The Liberals knew full well what they were doing and pressed on the “tomorrow never comes” plan.

Fast forward to today and the piper needs to get paid.

The revisionist history that “no one could have seen this coming” rings hollow.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1327683071987081217

Well that's all well and good. But that's just standard opposition party trope. That doesn't mean there was a solution to the issue and certainly not back in 2020. We (as a developed western nation) were spending too much in 2020 because we had no real option. You can look back today with pure hindsight and say it wasn't necessary, but it doesn't change the fact that it was.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by Slava

Well that's all well and good. But that's just standard opposition party trope. That doesn't mean there was a solution to the issue and certainly not back in 2020. We (as a developed western nation) were spending too much in 2020 because we had no real option. You can look back today with pure hindsight and say it wasn't necessary, but it doesn't change the fact that it was.

Agreed, how and for how long may have differed, but yes there was certainly and emergency to deal with.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Yoho

I disagree that the Conservatives would have led us to this same financial abyss.

This was 2020 Pierre sounding the alarm.

I think it’s naive to think there was no possible way for any different outcome.

The Liberals knew full well what they were doing and pressed on the “tomorrow never comes” plan.

Fast forward to today and the piper needs to get paid.

The revisionist history that “no one could have seen this coming” rings hollow.

Has PP ever presented a costed federal budget that includes tax cuts and reduced deficits?

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Yoho

Agreed, how and for how long may have differed, but yes there was certainly and emergency to deal with.

Sure, maybe supports should've been cut sooner. But you realise that would've just started the issues sooner as well? Cutting small business supports earlier would've just meant more suffering SMB's as they struggled to recover from the pandemic.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Yoho

I disagree that the Conservatives would have led us to this same financial abyss.

This was 2020 Pierre sounding the alarm.

I think it’s naive to think there was no possible way for any different outcome.

The Liberals knew full well what they were doing and pressed on the “tomorrow never comes” plan.

Fast forward to today and the piper needs to get paid.

The revisionist history that “no one could have seen this coming” rings hollow.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1327683071987081217

You don't think the Conservatives would've spent money during Covid? you think they would've had balanced budgets?

Remember tax cuts are also costs to the government that increase debt.

You think rising interest rates are a strictly LPC phenomenon?

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

How do you see the bolded happening?

Perhaps they could consider making it easier for workers who want to join a union to actually do it?

Or maybe even just make it so that there are some actual penalties strong enough to deter employers from breaking the existing laws?

I know, I know, radical left wing thinking, right?

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

Maybe things aren’t as bad as the numbers make it seem, I can’t say for sure. But is seems the lower income people and families are really struggling. Now people can shrug that off and say “times are tough”. But what do tough times for lower middle name earners lead to, potential homelessness, mental health issues, maybe drug addiction. Things that get talked about plenty in other threads.

Not to mention that when people can’t afford to feed themselves properly, they resorts to poorer quality food - we won’t see this for a number of years, but there will probably be a higher burden on our healthcare system from people not beating able to eat as healthy as they should.

If anything, this crisis has shown the gulf between rich/poor that many have sounded the alarm over for years.

Sure, we complain about food prices and the cost of living, but the vast majority of us are still going out, going to stampede (record-breaking) going on vacation (flights and hotels are super busy) showing that there is certainly money to burn. Car sales, home sales are all up.

Economic indicators are showing growth (for now); but, as Belsurius (sp?) stated, its working exactly as intended.

I remember the Alberta booms of yester year, when new outlets would run story about the bad side of the booms - cost of living issues in the north, pushing out low income people. For the most part, Albertans didn't care.

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Perhaps they could consider making it easier for workers who want to join a union to actually do it?

Or maybe even just make it so that there are some actual penalties strong enough to deter employers from breaking the existing laws?

I know, I know, radical left wing thinking, right?

I started work recently with a company that ratified their CBA before inflation hit, and are now about 15-18% behind the rest of the industry in terms of take home pay.

I've been part of three unions, and the people running them all seem to be 104 years old and out of touch with what the members say that they need. Nothing will make you a non-union guy faster, than joining a weak union.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Cappy

I remember the Alberta booms of yester year, when new outlets would run story about the bad side of the booms - cost of living issues in the north, pushing out low income people. For the most part, Albertans didn't care.

Hell, some of the very same people talking about how hard it is for poor people to afford groceries have been completely silent on the UCP’s moves that have made the electricity bills of Albertans go through the roof. Some of them have even defended the UCP.

They only “care” when they can lay it at the feet of a politician they don’t like.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

I started work recently with a company that ratified their CBA before inflation hit, and are now about 15-18% behind the rest of the industry in terms of take home pay.

Please share a link to the CBA(they’re public documents) and whatever proof you have that they’re 15-18% behind the rest of the industry that is non-unionized.

I've been part of three unions, and the people running them all seem to be 104 years old and out of touch with what the members say that they need. Nothing will make you a non-union guy faster, than joining a weak union.

I mean this reads as the pretty standard pretend like you support unions while bad mouthing them tripe but I guess my question would be why wouldn’t their members vote them out if that’s the case?

[2Stonedbirds]

Originally Posted by Cappy

If anything, this crisis has shown the gulf between rich/poor that many have sounded the alarm over for years.

Sure, we complain about food prices and the cost of living, but the vast majority of us are still going out, going to stampede (record-breaking) going on vacation (flights and hotels are super busy) showing that there is certainly money to burn. Car sales, home sales are all up.

Economic indicators are showing growth (for now); but, as Belsurius (sp?) stated, its working exactly as intended.

I remember the Alberta booms of yester year, when new outlets would run story about the bad side of the booms - cost of living issues in the north, pushing out low income people. For the most part, Albertans didn't care.

Agreed, but what does anyone have at the end of the day to show for it?
Household debt is off the charts. I remember a study conducted before covid, showing nearly half of Canadians are $200 away from insolvency. That blows my mind. For many, things look great. New car, new house, vacations, ect as you mentioned... but the hot water tank popping means they're ####ed.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4986586

People are spending money, sure. It just isn't theirs. I'm not sure bubble begins to describe the situation. At some point does it not pop?

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Hell, some of the very same people talking about how hard it is for poor people to afford groceries have been completely silent on the UCP’s moves that have made the electricity bills of Albertans go through the roof. Some of them have even defended the UCP.

They only “care” when they can lay it at the feet of a politician they don’t like.

PP will surely solve the housing crisis; and the food crisis; the health care crisis; and the inflation crisis. All the while cutting taxes and returning us to balanced budgets

All of these problems obviously come with very simple solutions

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

Maybe things aren’t as bad as the numbers make it seem, I can’t say for sure. But is seems the lower income people and families are really struggling. Now people can shrug that off and say “times are tough”. But what do tough times for lower middle name earners lead to, potential homelessness, mental health issues, maybe drug addiction. Things that get talked about plenty in other threads.

Not to mention that when people can’t afford to feed themselves properly, they resorts to poorer quality food - we won’t see this for a number of years, but there will probably be a higher burden on our healthcare system from people not beating able to eat as healthy as they should.

To me the divide is this, people who have gotten raises that reflect inflation and the cost of living, and people who haven't. Some of my friends were making a living wage two years ago haven't seen a raise and are now going into debt just trying to cover their bills. This is extra frustrating when you see that corporations are making record profits.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Cappy

PP will surely solve the housing crisis; and the food crisis; the health care crisis; and the inflation crisis. All the while cutting taxes and returning us to balanced budgets

All of these problems obviously come with very simple solutions

He has all the answers, they’re just secrets until the election

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Hell, some of the very same people talking about how hard it is for poor people to afford groceries have been completely silent on the UCP’s moves that have made the electricity bills of Albertans go through the roof. Some of them have even defended the UCP.

They only “care” when they can lay it at the feet of a politician they don’t like.

Great analogy home, grocery, and fuel prices in all of Canada are equally as impactful as Alberta’s electricity prices.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

To me the divide is this, people who have gotten raises that reflect inflation and the cost of living, and people who haven't. Some of my friends were making a living wage two years ago haven't seen a raise and are now going into debt just trying to cover their bills. This is extra frustrating when you see that corporations are making record profits.

Ever increasing public sector vs. ever shrinking small buisness and private sector IMO.