[Rumour] Chris Johnston: Lindholm is interested in staying

[Enoch Root]

The joke about Debrincat's +/- in the other thread got me curious...

In the 5 years that Lindholm has been a Flame, this is the top 10 players, by plus/minus, in the league:

Bergeron: 134
D. Toews: 128
McAvoy: 120
Marchand: 109
MacKinnon: 106
Slavin: 105
Grzelcyk: 103
Tkachuk: 101
Lindholm:99
Makar: 93 (4 years)

Pretty solid list to be on

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Buffalo was recently able to sign 3 RFA’s to 7 year deals, eating up 6 UFA years for Thompson, 3 years for Cozens and 3 years for Samuelsson. It is definitely possible to be a bad team and still have young players sign longterm if you have the money to make it worth their while.

Ottawa pulled off a similar move with Stutzle, Tkachuk, Norris and Chabot so signing young players to long term contracts does not appear contingent on having a competitive team.

Nobody said it was contingent, just that it is something young players with options value. Just like playing for a team close to home isn’t contingent to signing young players with options, but it absolutely has value.

It’s not like Buffalo and Ottawa haven’t lost their fair share of great players as soon as or even before UFA hit so I’m not sure what your point actually is.

I know you’d rather believe there is literally nothing negative about dismantling an team and nothing positive about trying to ice a competitive team, but that’s just not the way it actually works in practice. A lot of players value playing with good players and playing on teams that are in the playoff mix.

[Teroy]

It's past the time to move on from Lindholm. If suggestions of 9 years and $9 million haven't convince him to stay then get whatever you can for him and move on. This waiting on him to make a decision has to end.

[Mephisto]

Originally Posted by Teroy

It's past the time to move on from Lindholm. If suggestions of 9 years and $9 million haven't convince him to stay then get whatever you can for him and move on. This waiting on him to make a decision has to end.

Nope. Just because you are impatient doesn't mean the team should make a bad trade or pay above market for an extension. Lots of time. Enjoy the Stampede.

[flamesgod]

Originally Posted by Teroy

It's past the time to move on from Lindholm. If suggestions of 9 years and $9 million haven't convince him to stay then get whatever you can for him and move on. This waiting on him to make a decision has to end.

Yes, excellent idea, lets cut our losses at the worst possible time, while the trade market is terrible.

I hope Lindholm signs soon.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Teroy

It's past the time to move on from Lindholm. If suggestions of 9 years and $9 million haven't convince him to stay then get whatever you can for him and move on. This waiting on him to make a decision has to end.

an illegal contract won't even do it!

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Teroy

It's past the time to move on from Lindholm. If suggestions of 9 years and $9 million haven't convince him to stay then get whatever you can for him and move on. This waiting on him to make a decision has to end.

It's a contract negotiation involving tens of millions of dollars. An extra $100k a year is still a large of money. The parties are understandably taking their time.

[CFO]

I don't want to see Lindholm signed for $8.5m or plus per year.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by CFO

I don't want to see Lindholm signed for $8.5m or plus per year.

Well, we didn't draft a natural center in this elite draft either, so signing him is still a better alternative to going indefinitely without a 1C, if we want any hope to compete any time soon.

8.5 would be better than the rumoured 9+. With the cap rising it wouldn't be terrible.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

The joke about Debrincat's +/- in the other thread got me curious...

In the 5 years that Lindholm has been a Flame, this is the top 10 players, by plus/minus, in the league:

Bergeron: 134
D. Toews: 128
McAvoy: 120
Marchand: 109
MacKinnon: 106
Slavin: 105
Grzelcyk: 103
Tkachuk: 101
Lindholm:99
Makar: 93 (4 years)

Pretty solid list to be on

Yeah, but I mean, he was on a line with Gaudreau and Tkachuk….

This is my issue with him. What is he without them? That is what we should be prepared to contract on. Not what he did when they were here.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

Well, we didn't draft a natural center in this elite draft either, so signing him is still a better alternative to going indefinitely without a 1C, if we want any hope to compete any time soon.

8.5 would be better than the rumoured 9+. With the cap rising it wouldn't be terrible.

This is not how you build a winner. You don't sign a 2nd line center as a1st line center because that's the best option you have at this exact moment in time. Continually handing out bad contracts because that's the best option available at that exact moment is a recipe for failure. No need to continually make poor decisions out of desperation.

[Mr.Coffee]

Exactly and frankly sometimes you need to take the L. It’s better to take a bad trade than sign a bad contract, IMO.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Yeah, but I mean, he was on a line with Gaudreau and Tkachuk….

This is my issue with him. What is he without them? That is what we should be prepared to contract on. Not what he did when they were here.

That's a five-year sample. Lindholm was on a line with Gaudreau and Tkachuk for only one season.

Last year all three of Gaudreau's, Tkachuk's and Lindholm's +/- dropped substantially—Gaudreau's completely cratered (-33!). It seems pretty evident that all three of them benefitted from playing that one season together on what became a super-lne.

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[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

That's a five-year sample. Lindholm was on a line with Gaudreau and Tkachuk for only one season.

Last year all three of Gaudreau's, Tkachuk's and Lindholm's +/- dropped substantially—Gaudreau's completely cratered (-33!). It seems pretty evident that all three of them benefitted from playing that one season together on what became a super-lne.

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Please don't let facts get in the way of the narrative

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Please don't let facts get in the way of the narrative

Sorry. What was I thinking?

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[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Please don't let facts get in the way of the narrative

Speaking of narrative.

Take away the one outlier season Lindholm played with Gaudreau and Tkachuk, where he was +61, and his 5-year +/- is +30, and nowhere near the list you've laid out.

[blender]

Originally Posted by Hackey

This is not how you build a winner. You don't sign a 2nd line center as a1st line center because that's the best option you have at this exact moment in time. Continually handing out bad contracts because that's the best option available at that exact moment is a recipe for failure. No need to continually make poor decisions out of desperation.

But is 8.5m even 1C money right now?
The only 1C players at that value are on contracts signed years ago.
There is a lot of comments about how Lindholm is a 2C on a contender which may be true, although he would be a luxury for that team. Imagine if you swapped Chandler Stephenson for Lindholm. Pretty sure that's a significant upgrade for a true contender.
Maybe 8.5 is a bit steep for the 2C, but you aren't getting an elite 1C for that, so the value is not far off for what he brings.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Yeah, but I mean, he was on a line with Gaudreau and Tkachuk….

This is my issue with him. What is he without them? That is what we should be prepared to contract on. Not what he did when they were here.

Yeah -33 Gaudreau is why Lindholm has good plus minus numbers and not the other way around lol

and he was with Tkachuk ONE of the 5 years

[blender]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

Speaking of narrative.

Take away the one outlier season Lindholm played with Gaudreau and Tkachuk, where he was +61, and his 5-year +/- is +30, and nowhere near the list you've laid out.

Why do we always have to take away the outlier season?
Good players make other good players even better. He was burying pucks from the slot every game. It's not like JG was banking them in off Lindholms ass! How many less assists do JG and MT have without him?
We don't need to make #### up.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Hackey

This is not how you build a winner. You don't sign a 2nd line center as a1st line center because that's the best option you have at this exact moment in time. Continually handing out bad contracts because that's the best option available at that exact moment is a recipe for failure. No need to continually make poor decisions out of desperation.

8.5-9M isn't a top end center price

Mcdrai and Matthews ect. are looking at 13-16M coming up