[Rumour] Chris Johnston: Lindholm is interested in staying

[The Original FFIV]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

It does fall in line with what I said before, Lindholm is taking his time to see what moves Conroy makes. I think Backlund is in the same waiting pattern. Both want to see where the direction of the team is heading this year. I think the Flames are willing to move Backlund regardless if the right offer comes. You have to look at it from Lindholm's point of view, he wants to stay providing the team is looking to try and compete and the only thing that has happened is his top winger was dealt. I do think the Flames and Leafs are working on something pretty big but both teams are walking at the edge of the cap so it's tough, if you have to bring in a 3rd team to eat some salary it becomes even more complex. These things take time, people just have to be patient. Plenty of time.

So basically what you’re saying is it all comes down to the return we get for hanifin. That’s the one piece we have that can bring in elite talent to play with Elias. Makes sense then as to why we didn’t trade hanifin for a futures package as lindy would want out if that’s the case.

So we wait with bated breath to see what conny can get for hanifin. That’s the domino that needs to fall before we get an answer from Elias.

[browna]

There is no rush as far as July 8 or August 8 or September 8, as much as fans want resolution, for players in that situation.

Players all over the league aren't happy with various changes at their club each offseason. Their initial opinions change as the summer goes on, one way or another. Sounds like these same players upset this year were unsure last year, especially after the high profile departures and again this year with the regime change. Time away from the rink helps makes those decisions as things may not seem as dire as they did after not making the playoffs.

While I'm of the opinion that if these guys didn't want to be here in exit interviews, and still don't want to be there after the supposed reason for their angst in Sutter is gone, they should be moved. None of the guys on the fence is untouchable (Tanev would be the one I'd prefer to keep if I had to choose one).

That all said, Conroy also has to, as Treliving did with JG and MT, not push too hard if they do want to keep players, of course not to push the players away. Time over the summer the decision will come naturally to the players, but Flames not pushing also shows agents and other players in the league that the Flames aren't going to force their supposed valued players into something with a hard deadline.

That's obviously a slippery slope by letting it go too long and losing value, but forcing a July 10th deadline on Hanifin or Lindholm to decide if they are going to be here 355 days later, would be viewed as aggressive and unreasonable by other players considering the Flames, and Flames don't want to burn bridges like that.

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by The Original FFIV

So basically what you’re saying is it all comes down to the return we get for hanifin. That’s the one piece we have that can bring in elite talent to play with Elias. Makes sense then as to why we didn’t trade hanifin for a futures package as lindy would want out if that’s the case.

So we wait with bated breath to see what conny can get for hanifin. That’s the domino that needs to fall before we get an answer from Elias.

I hope this isn’t the case. We should be looking to get max value for Hanifin first and foremost, not shoehorning ourselves into a win now move that appeases another star player to convince him to re-sign.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Redrum

I'm hoping for something beyond catching lighting in a bottle, which is what you're talking about. An actual decent team that can compete for something meaningful, outside of a fluke year.

He is not talking about catching lightning in a bottle, though. This is essentially the same core group of players that was projected at the start of last season to win the Division. They obviously, spectacularly underacheived, but it would be silly to conclude from this one bad showing—in which several of the team's top players were clearly not performing at their best—that this was the high-water mark for this group.

How much better is this team with an 85-point Huberdeau? With Weeger playing a full season like he did in March/April? With Kylington on the second pair? With Markstrom posting numbers closer to his 0.910 avg? With a functional powerplay? How much better can they be with an infusion of youth and enthusiasm?

The entire group did not just plummet off of a cliff. This is still a very good team.

Sent from my SM-G986W using Tapatalk

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

I hope this isn’t the case. We should be looking to get max value for Hanifin first and foremost, not shoehorning ourselves into a win now move that appeases another star player to convince him to re-sign.

Sure, but these things aren't static, happy players are better than unhappy players, and good players play better with other good players.

You can't just trade them like horses, and not expect consequences.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

I hope this isn’t the case. We should be looking to get max value for Hanifin first and foremost, not shoehorning ourselves into a win now move that appeases another star player to convince him to re-sign.

You are assuming that "max value" is a deal for futures, which is not an opinion shared by all of us. Conroy has been abundantly clear since he was introduced as the GM: He believes this is a good team that can win, and any roster changes he makes will align with that belief.

Sent from my SM-G986W using Tapatalk

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

You are assuming that "max value" is a deal for futures, which is not an opinion shared by all of us. Conroy has been abundantly clear since he was introduced as the GM: He believes this is a good team that can win, and any roster changes he makes will align with that belief.

Sent from my SM-G986W using Tapatalk

He’s said a lot of things since he took over, including that he will NOT make the same mistakes as the last regime when it comes to UFAs.

There have also been no shortage of sources close to the Flames, including Steinberg, that have reported that deals for futures are under consideration.

You must admit, making a deal to win now, just so we can convince a player to stay (and pay him for 8 years) would be…a little shortsighted.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

You must admit, making a deal to win now, just so we can convince a player to stay (and pay him for 8 years) would be…a little shortsighted.

I would, but I disagree that that is the primary reason for making such a deal. Clearly, Conroy has identified Lindholm as a key component to the Flames's success, but this is also because he believes the group—including Lindholm—is much better than they performed last year. The reason Conroy is pursuing "win now" deals is because this roster can win—it's not all about keeping Lindholm happy.

Sent from my SM-G986W using Tapatalk

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I would, but I disagree that that is the primary reason for making such a deal. Clearly, Conroy has identified Lindholm as a key component to the Flames's success, but this is also because he believes the group—including Lindholm—is much better than they performed last year. The reason Conroy is pursuing "win now" deals is because this roster can win—it's not all about keeping Lindholm happy.

Sent from my SM-G986W using Tapatalk

Ok, but Conroy has an obvious monetray incentive, if not obligation, to market this team, no matter its state, to people like you and me. How much weight does an appeal to authority hold in this case?

Does Conroy really believe this team is capable of winning, or is he marketing a product that has no viable alterative to 30+ year old Lindholm holding down the #1C spot for 8 years in Calgary, given a 'no rebuild' mandate? Is he even the person making the decision that the Flames should be trying to compete right now? We have lots of smoke dating back years suggesting it's not. It's just his job to sell it that way.

Lots of assumptions in motive built into that argument, so I would disagree that this is 'clearly' what Conroy believes. All that to say, the actions are what we should be judging, not the intent. The intent can just as easily (if not more likely) be a bunch of smoke and mirrors to sell hope to a hopeless situation.

So I don't really think you've addressed the point you're quoting.

[taxbuster]

So just a question for all those who think that Conny should rebuild, assuming that the organizational mandate is "no rebuild": when was the last time you defied an organizational mandate? How long did you manage to stay there after doing so?

Just wondering.

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

So just a question for all those who think that Conny should rebuild, assuming that the organizational mandate is "no rebuild": when was the last time you defied an organizational mandate? How long did you manage to stay there after doing so?

Just wondering.

It’s not cries to defy ownership. 6 pending UFAs, a few key players clearly hesitant to re-sign, and a new arena on the horizon. If this one domino (Lindholm) goes, it’s really hard to remain competitive and then you’re facing some sort of forced rebuild…which several, myself included, thinks is best for the franchise at this time.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

blabbity blah blah blah ...

Your posts are such a waste of time. You make it sound like once a player turns 30 he is at death's door. Every decision or comment made by team personnel is the worst possible outcome from under your dark cloud of constant cynicism. I can't imagine what it must be like to be so perpetually miserable.


Sent from my SM-G986W using Tapatalk

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Your posts are such a waste of time. You make it sound like once a player turns 30 he is at death's door. Every decision or comment made by team personnel is the worst possible outcome from under your dark cloud of constant cynicism. I can't imagine what it must be like to be so perpetually miserable.


Sent from my SM-G986W using Tapatalk

I'm good. Asked you to justify your position and this is the response.

Stay mad, I guess. If anything's a waste of time, it's posts like yours that consistently do nothing but attack people who disagree with you. That seems pretty miserable to me, tbh. I'm just some guy you don't know.

[Nelson]

I really hope the Flames don’t sign Lindholm to an 8 * $9M AAV.

[InternationalVillager]

I think Lindholm is capped at a max of $8.5M and believe it will end up a little less than that. $9M+ is Nylander territory. Have to save the cap for him.

[manwiches]

As much as I and some others want to see a rebuild and a tear down, it won't happen. At the end of the day, it's a business to be run. Which means putting bums in seats, selling merch, selling concession. Putting your B/C squad out, torpedoing your best talent, or bringing on B/C talent, it is hard to imagine that will put bums in the seats (and thus revenue).

Is there a case to be made for early pain for more gain later? Absolutely. But when the Flames are 1 year removed from a dream season, and see 2 of their biggest stars leave, then followed by bringing on some perceived great replacement talent, only for it to fall on it's face.... What do you do? It's not like they have been perennially terrible. It could be viewed as an off year. But now we're talking about our next A level talents seeking other pastures.

I'd hate to be in Conroy's shoes. He's literally in a no-win situation as the commander in chief. But at the same time, he also has to think of the future. What can he do now, to put bums in the seats, yet also build on future.

I think Lindholm is a great player to keep and have for both those accounts. But at what cost (term and AAV)? I don't know the right answer. All i know if that I'll continue to cheer them on.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by manwiches

As much as I and some others want to see a rebuild and a tear down, it won't happen. At the end of the day, it's a business to be run. Which means putting bums in seats, selling merch, selling concession. Putting your B/C squad out, torpedoing your best talent, or bringing on B/C talent, it is hard to imagine that will put bums in the seats (and thus revenue).

Is there a case to be made for early pain for more gain later? Absolutely. But when the Flames are 1 year removed from a dream season, and see 2 of their biggest stars leave, then followed by bringing on some perceived great replacement talent, only for it to fall on it's face.... What do you do? It's not like they have been perennially terrible. It could be viewed as an off year. But now we're talking about our next A level talents seeking other pastures.

I'd hate to be in Conroy's shoes. He's literally in a no-win situation as the commander in chief. But at the same time, he also has to think of the future. What can he do now, to put bums in the seats, yet also build on future.

I think Lindholm is a great player to keep and have for both those accounts. But at what cost (term and AAV)? I don't know the right answer. All i know if that I'll continue to cheer them on.

To build off this point, we had a fairly unique situation in Gaudreau and Tkachuk wanting to leave. More common than Americans wanting to stay home has always been great players wanting to be on great, stable teams.

Nobody wanted to be on the Oilers even during the first stretch of McDavid. A generational talent couldn't even bring people in because they were a tire fire. When they started to have some success, they started luring better players on better deals. (they're still garbage, but that's a different thing).

It's a bit of a catch-22 because you want to make sure 100% you can afford guys like Coronato, Wolf, or Honzek if/when they pop. But you also need to make sure you're a team they want to play for (especially as a mid/small market team). The cap is always something you can figure out. Vegas just won the cup while being some absurd number over the cap. Boston cleared $6M off the cap for a fat bit of nothing. A lot is going to change 3-6 years from now when (hopefully) the young guys we have now pop and ask for big numbers.

American teams like Buffalo and Columbus are no strangers to losing good players to greener pastures. The value to players in sticking with a competitive team shouldn't be understated, regardless of how much people want to believe one terrible year was the true peak of everyone on this roster.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

To build off this point, we had a fairly unique situation in Gaudreau and Tkachuk wanting to leave. More common than Americans wanting to stay home has always been great players wanting to be on great, stable teams.

Nobody wanted to be on the Oilers even during the first stretch of McDavid. A generational talent couldn't even bring people in because they were a tire fire. When they started to have some success, they started luring better players on better deals. (they're still garbage, but that's a different thing).

It's a bit of a catch-22 because you want to make sure 100% you can afford guys like Coronato, Wolf, or Honzek if/when they pop. But you also need to make sure you're a team they want to play for (especially as a mid/small market team). The cap is always something you can figure out. Vegas just won the cup while being some absurd number over the cap. Boston cleared $6M off the cap for a fat bit of nothing. A lot is going to change 3-6 years from now when (hopefully) the young guys we have now pop and ask for big numbers.

American teams like Buffalo and Columbus are no strangers to losing good players to greener pastures. The value to players in sticking with a competitive team shouldn't be understated, regardless of how much people want to believe one terrible year was the true peak of everyone on this roster.

Buffalo was recently able to sign 3 RFA’s to 7 year deals, eating up 6 UFA years for Thompson, 3 years for Cozens and 3 years for Samuelsson. It is definitely possible to be a bad team and still have young players sign longterm if you have the money to make it worth their while.

Ottawa pulled off a similar move with Stutzle, Tkachuk, Norris and Chabot so signing young players to long term contracts does not appear contingent on having a competitive team.

[traptor]

I would love that if lindy did not re-sign that it would force the flames into a rebuild.

Unfortunately, if lindy doesn't re-sign I simply see them trying to bring in a replacement in the form of scheifele, reinhart or chandler Stephenson.

[manwiches]

Originally Posted by traptor

I would love that if lindy did not re-sign that it would force the flames into a rebuild.

Unfortunately, if lindy doesn't re-sign I simply see them trying to bring in a replacement in the form of scheifele, reinhart or chandler Stephenson.

Fun fact. My neighbour was just at Chandler Stephenson's wedding in Waskasiu. Apparently pretty much the whole Capitals team from when they won, flew in and were there.

#coolstorybro