[Rumour] Chris Johnston: Lindholm is interested in staying

[Ashasx]

We traded a 1st round pick less than a year ago to get out of a single year of Monahan's contract??

[Saqe]

I was kind of hopeful that these trade demands would force a player induced rebuild but it's obvious that they have no intent of doing something like that and will try to sign Lindholm if possible. And if they can't they'll sign some big name UFA to replace him to stay competitive. If that's the case and that's how it certainly seems, I'm all for re-signing Lindholm and whoever else they can. Go all in on trying to win now or rebuild, just don't half ass it with whatever the direction is.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Saqe

I was kind of hopeful that these trade demands would force a player induced rebuild but it's obvious that they have no intent of doing something like that and will try to sign Lindholm if possible. And if they can't they'll sign some big name UFA to replace him to stay competitive. If that's the case and that's how it certainly seems, I'm all for re-signing Lindholm and whoever else they can. Go all in on trying to win now or rebuild, just don't half ass it with whatever the direction is.

There are no "big name" UFAs left though.

Unless one believes Patrick Kane would come to Calgary...in which case i have a real estate investment i would love to tell you all about!!

[Monahammer]

[blankall]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

Acquiring superstars drafted in the top 10 of the draft is poor asset management and cap management. It should be the exception, not the rule. It’s far more expensive to acquire those players and pay them at their peak value than it is to draft and develop them.

Also, we keep going back and comparing ourselves to Vegas, who was sitting on an all-time embarrassment of riches thanks to an expansion draft for the ages. They could absorb paying all the assets for Eichel because they had young players coming, not to mention being the top free agent destination in the league.

How is acquiring superstars poor asset management? That should be the goal of any big trade. Whether it's a good move out not depends what you give up for them. Acquiring Lindholm and Hanifin was a brilliant move. If the Flames could do that 2-3 more time we would be Vegas.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by transplant99

There are no "big name" UFAs left though.

Maybe not this year but next. Either way it seems there is no intent on starting from scratch (and can't really blame them with the long term contracts that were signed last summer) so might as well try to maximize whatever is on the roster.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

We traded a 1st round pick less than a year ago to get out of a single year of Monahan's contract??

Which was dumb*

But that's an example of dumping cap from a player who was signed for 7 years coming off his ELC to sign a 30+ UFA for 7 years...not the other way around.

*I hated the move, but it made some sense considering this group was at the culmination of it's build and to go all-in with Huberdeau/Weegar/Lindholm on particularly low contracts...though with those 3 guys having AAVs about 12M below future value the smarter move would have been to keep the pick for a TDL pickup if the team was a contender (but hard to say how much more you'd have to pay to get someone like Kadri at that time)

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by blankall

How is acquiring superstars poor asset management? That should be the goal of any big trade. Whether it's a good move out not depends what you give up for them. Acquiring Lindholm and Hanifin was a brilliant move. If the Flames could do that 2-3 more time we would be Vegas.

Acquiring superstars when they are superstars, is what I meant. They’re expensive acquisitions that make sense for asset rich franchises, or that are in a Stanley cup window.

Also, hitting home runs on trades…if it was sustainable to build a franchise that way, everyone would be doing it.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Which was dumb*

But that's an example of dumping cap from a player who was signed for 7 years coming off his ELC to sign a 30+ UFA for 7 years...not the other way around.

*I hated the move, but it made some sense considering this group was at the culmination of it's build and to go all-in with Huberdeau/Weegar/Lindholm on particularly low contracts...though with those 3 guys having AAVs about 12M below future value the smarter move would have been to keep the pick for a TDL pickup if the team was a contender (but hard to say how much more you'd have to pay to get someone like Kadri at that time)

Yeah, it was more like paying a first and Monahan for Kadri. Which didn't turn out to be a good deal, but which Treliving hoped would put him in the same position as re-signing a healthy Monahan. And it was basically Treliving shoving his chips in because there weren't a whole lot of other options.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Yeah...no it isnt.

Its a major part of the game and being a #1C....he excels at it.

There is just so much more to hockey/compensation than points/pts per 60/pts 5 on 5 etc etc etc

Are there any actual stats (advanced or otherwise) that show that he is elite defensively or is that just something that folks say?

[traptor]

Originally Posted by Saqe

If they can't they'll sign some big name UFA to replace him to stay competitive.

Probably. They'll probably just throw big money at Scheifele, Stephenson or Reinhart.

Frustrating.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Are there any actual stats (advanced or otherwise) that show that he is elite defensively or is that just something that folks say?

I'm sure others will dig into the stats for you, but in the meantime, here's a hint:

https://twitter.com/user/status/1533524790656520192

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

I'm sure others will dig into the stats for you, but in the meantime, here's a hint:

https://twitter.com/user/status/1533524790656520192

I eagerly await the stats, this year he was far behind defensive stalwarts Mitch Marner and Elias Pettersson.

[Redrum]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

There are good arguments against signing Lindholm - the main one being he probably won't be worth the money.

But it leading to some situation where we can't sign some young player who breaks out is not one of them. There is a 0% change that is a problem.

Step it up anti-Lindholm gang.

The cap isn't a problem for keeping players? I'm pretty sure that's actually the purpose of the cap, and the ONLY problem you have to deal with. Unless this is sarcasm then nvm, but I think 25mil tied up in 35+ year olds will be a snag at some point. Nobody is anti-Lindholm, there simply isn't room. If you can kick out Kadri then by all mean sign him.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Redrum

The cap isn't a problem for keeping players? I'm pretty sure that's actually the purpose of the cap, and the ONLY problem you have to deal with. Unless this is sarcasm then nvm, but I think 25mil tied up in 35+ year olds will be a snag at some point. Nobody is anti-Lindholm, there simply isn't room. If you can kick out Kadri then by all mean sign him.

To put it into perspective, if the Flames paid Lindholm $9M, they would be still be spending almost $10M LESS on their top 3 forwards and top 2 defencemen than the Oilers are spending on theirs. In today numbers. So, imagine the cap going up like it will and you can see why it’s just not a concern. If a prospect caught fire and needed a $10M+ contract today we would be, at worst, in the Oilers situation. In 4-5 years we’ll be laughing.

And by that point they’ll have McDavid making $16M and Drai making $12M+.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

To put it into perspective, if the Flames paid Lindholm $9M, they would be still be spending almost $10M LESS on their top 3 forwards and top 2 defencemen than the Oilers are spending on theirs. In today numbers. So, imagine the cap going up like it will and you can see why it’s just not a concern. If a prospect caught fire and needed a $10M+ contract today we would be, at worst, in the Oilers situation. In 4-5 years we’ll be laughing.

And by that point they’ll have McDavid making $16M and Drai making $12M+.

We look dumb comparing our forwards to the Oilers forwards. The Oilers problem is that they paid Nurse way too much. Flames would have the reverse, paying forwards way too much and getting a good deal on their defencemen.

We would also be spending the same on forwards . Oilers spending 26.5 on McDavid, Draisaitl and Hyman and if we sign Lindholm to 9 million the Flames spending 26.5 million on Huberdeau, Kadri and Lindholm. The Oilers forwards are significantly (miles) better than the Flames forwards.

Also, just for the record the Oilers spend 4.45 million more on those 5 positions than the Flames do.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

We look dumb comparing our forwards to the Oilers forwards. The Oilers problem is that they paid Nurse way too much. Flames would have the reverse, paying forwards way too much and getting a good deal on their defencemen.

We would also be spending the same on forwards . Oilers spending 26.5 on McDavid, Draisaitl and Hyman and if we sign Lindholm to 9 million the Flames spending 26.5 million on Huberdeau, Kadri and Lindholm. The Oilers forwards are significantly (miles) better than the Flames forwards.

Also, just for the record the Oilers spend 4.45 million more on those 5 positions than the Flames do.

Oh yeah, math was off a little bit (must have added Hyman twice).

It’s not about comparing forwards, though, and we don’t have to call anyone dumb over it. It’s about the amount paid on the number of guys and how workable that is in a cap world (the Oilers number is about to jump up sharply, as I said, so not sure why we care how good McDavid is compared to Lindholm). We can go with the Stars if you think that’s a better comparison at 27.5, or the Leafs at 33.5, or the Islanders at 24.5, or the Rangers at 26.5, etc.

The point is that having Lindholm at $9M is not a difficult number to manage, especially when you look at the rest of the roster and where we’re overpaying vs. where we should expect more production.

He’s a first line center. He’s going to get paid like one. It’s going to be deserved and any cap difficulty from it in year one is almost certainly going to be gone by year 2 or 3.

[Redrum]

Unfortunately, their forwards are a LOT better and still younger. Our guys are starting their 8/8/7 year contracts in their 30s(the term and age are also more important than the money btw). A much, much more efficient use of the cap.

Another thing: It would be REALLY embarrassing for a long time if the Oilers were smart enough to trade one of those guys for a boatload of futures, while we're stuck with all three lesser players forEVER. Anyway, let's just hope Kadri develops an allergy to equipment or ice or whatever before they decide to enforce anything.

[Reign of Fire]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

To put it into perspective, if the Flames paid Lindholm $9M, they would be still be spending almost $10M LESS on their top 3 forwards and top 2 defencemen than the Oilers are spending on theirs. In today numbers. So, imagine the cap going up like it will and you can see why it’s just not a concern. If a prospect caught fire and needed a $10M+ contract today we would be, at worst, in the Oilers situation. In 4-5 years we’ll be laughing.

And by that point they’ll have McDavid making $16M and Drai making $12M+.

How do our players compare to theirs? Also, how do the ages of these compare? This time it’s probably better if we don’t brag about spending 10M less than Oilers players.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Redrum

Unfortunately, their forwards are a LOT better and still younger. Our guys are starting their 8/8/7 year contracts in their 30s(the term and age are also more important than the money btw). A much, much more efficient use of the cap.

Another thing: It would be REALLY embarrassing for a long time if the Oilers were smart enough to trade one of those guys for a boatload of futures, while we're stuck with all three lesser players forEVER. Anyway, let's just hope Kadri develops an allergy to equipment or ice or whatever before they decide to enforce anything.

The term and age don’t really matter because, by the time either do, the cap will have gone up and they’ll be easier to move.