Following up on the previous information. Other whistleblowers have come forward to congress including those who support what Grush reported.
Analyst suggests whistleblower's claims are true.
Fighter pilot who got the ball rolling with congress applauds Rubio's comments.
Documentarian excited about comments and possible validation to his work.
Corbell points to Canada's involvement the Five Eyes Alliance and invitation to a Pentagon briefing on the subject and a communication from MP Larry Maguire to Defense Minister Anita Anand about recovery efforts. Maguire suggests the government get out in front of what he perceived as upcoming disclosures to maintain credibility of the government with the Canadian people. Timing with Grush's disclosure cannot be coincidental.
Corbell is pretty knowledgeable by the sounds of it, but the way he talks and presents his information rubs a lot of people the wrong way.
He just comes across like a conspiracy bro in his mannerisms. There's a running joke on JRE comment sections with him being referenced as "bearded guy" and they're quite amusing.
Too bad there wasn't someone more convincing to present all these testimonies he's collected.
The past week or so there has been some chatter about some announcements coming on June 29th in the Science/physics world. I do think eventually wonder if some of this may somehow tie in to UAP/UFO topic so might be fun to follow!
All I will say about this is - it would be pretty amazing that these things have such amazing technology that we can never see them clearly or get a clear picture of them, but if we are flying around at a high speed - we can suddenly see glimpses of them but in no way we can actually give definitive proof.
So do you think the government wants to reveal the existence of extraterrestrial life or are they fighting against it still.
These commissions now should have enough authority to see the evidence if it exists right? And this investigation existing would make Biden likely seek out a review of the current evidence.
So is it a reasonable assumption that at least the president knows the quality of evidence that currently exists? Is it reasonable to assume that some senators would have clearance to obtain the information that exists. I think that those are probably reasonable to assume but not sure.
So then the question is does the committee right now hearing these whistleblowers actually want to release information or is it part of the coverup or doesn’t have the information?
If the current testimonies are true then there exist materials and bodies which would be easy to produce evidence from that they are not of Earth origin. And it would be easy to allow specimens to be studied by third parties. It also would suggest that the government knows what the UAPs are. Something that they currently deny.
So I get stuck with what the purpose of these committees are. If the goal is to release information then that should occur and to some degree has as the videos are officially released If the goal is to provide a cover up they don’t seem to be doing a good job of it. If the goal is to ensure that the investigation into these UAPs have proper oversite then that would make sense if they didn’t have an explanation of ships and bodies in the basement.
So what’s the motivation here by government in each of the scenarios of
US has had bodies and materials for a long time
US knows what the UAPs are and it’s alien tech
US doesn’t know what the UAPs are
US knows what the UAPs are but it’s US tech
I find it unlikely for the current committee set up to be what is happening if the materials and bodies exist. It seems like you would try to cover up more or disclose more as opposed to the current process. But I’m also coming from the roll the body out on the 6 o’clock news threshold of evidence.
There is no point to investigations when you know the answer, unless you are doing it for deception. So they either don't know what they are dealing with(and if that were the case, I'd expect a LOT more fear and paranoia) or they know exactly what it is, and are using it for psyops against enemies or citizens. Process of elimination here leads to the last option being the only one that makes much sense.
So do you think the government wants to reveal the existence of extraterrestrial life or are they fighting against it still.
Fighting against it still. The announcement of extraterrestrial life would have broad implications on its own. Admission they have been visiting us and intruding in our most protected airspace without effective response would have other significant implications they are likely ill prepared to deal with.
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These commissions now should have enough authority to see the evidence if it exists right? And this investigation existing would make Biden likely seek out a review of the current evidence.
I think this is a failure in understanding how government works, especially the US government. There are sections of the government that use compartmentalization to prevent access to information, even for congress. The job of congress to put law into place, approve budgets, and have oversight. With compartmentalization you can isolate those functions from oversight. Black budget programs operate with almost no oversight other than generalized discussion of broad budgetary details. Plus, funding can be moved around from department to department for secret programs. DARPA runs a budget but also gets money from the military and the intelligence communities. Department of Energy receives some dark money for the nuclear weapons program. It is a shell game to conceal where the money is being spent and the details of these programs. This extends to congress and the president. I recall Clinton talking about asking for details on this subject and he was told it was above his pay grade and need to know. Secrets are kept by keeping them out of the hands of those who may disclose such information.
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So is it a reasonable assumption that at least the president knows the quality of evidence that currently exists? Is it reasonable to assume that some senators would have clearance to obtain the information that exists. I think that those are probably reasonable to assume but not sure.
No, that would be unreasonable. The president is not briefed on many aspects of government, especially secret programs. They remain secret because no one person knows all the details specific to a program. The shielding of information is based on the principle of least privilege and has proven effective for decades.
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So then the question is does the committee right now hearing these whistleblowers actually want to release information or is it part of the coverup or doesn’t have the information?
They don't have access to the information. It is not within their purview to have access to such information. They are kept at arms length as their concern is budgetary and not in actual operational control.
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If the current testimonies are true then there exist materials and bodies which would be easy to produce evidence from that they are not of Earth origin. And it would be easy to allow specimens to be studied by third parties. It also would suggest that the government knows what the UAPs are. Something that they currently deny.
What makes you think there are not third parties already involved? I can guarantee you there are third parties involved and they are just as compartmentalized as other divisions within these programs. The government works with third parties on these black programs and they have just enough access to get their job done. Don't ask questions, don't talk about what you do, and don't try to reach out to other divisions for other information. Work under the scope given to you. It's how secret technologies are developed.
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So I get stuck with what the purpose of these committees are. If the goal is to release information then that should occur and to some degree has as the videos are officially released If the goal is to provide a cover up they don’t seem to be doing a good job of it. If the goal is to ensure that the investigation into these UAPs have proper oversite then that would make sense if they didn’t have an explanation of ships and bodies in the basement.
As explained, budget. That is the job of congress.
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So what’s the motivation here by government in each of the scenarios of
US has had bodies and materials for a long time
US knows what the UAPs are and it’s alien tech
US doesn’t know what the UAPs are
US knows what the UAPs are but it’s US tech
I find it unlikely for the current committee set up to be what is happening if the materials and bodies exist. It seems like you would try to cover up more or disclose more as opposed to the current process. But I’m also coming from the roll the body out on the 6 o’clock news threshold of evidence.
The motivation is control. The motivation is keep the money flowing. The motivation is to keep order as they see fit. Congress doesn't care about the details, they only care about power. If the whole house of cards would come tumbling down with a release the military/government can't protect us, then why would people keep paying into a system that can't do the job? Where would these people find access to the power they have? The system would fall apart with a complete and total collapse of public confidence.
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Originally Posted by puckedoff
US wants other nations to believe or suspect that they do have alien tech.
Other nations also have similar access to such tech. The US is not the only country to have purported crash sites. This goes back for decades, all the way to the Nazis in WWII. They were supposed to be the first to try and reverse engineer advanced tech. They had some of their best scientists working on it. Oh, and where did those scientists end up after WWWII? The US and Russia.
Last edited by Lanny_McDonald; 06-28-2023 at 09:56 AM.
So it's a global conspiracy to hide it now? You just explained how the US handles it, in theory, anyway, but would all the other countries with alien materials also have such rigorous protections it is kept secret? I can't buy that.
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Why would anyone care if the government can't protect us from 'whatever' that is coming down and doing nothing to us?
Who is the first one people turn to when #### goes really sideways on grand scale? There is an expectation that our government can protect us, from all possible foes "foreign or domestic."
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The government can't protect us a tornado wiping us all out or tsunami taking out the west coast - yet we still follow the government's rules.
Ah, but the government does. They are the ones that come in and pick up the pieces. They are the ones that insure you when your insurance company tells you to go #### yourself because the storm was an act of god. The government provides a massive safety blanket for our society and we rely heavily on them. When we can't handle things ourselves we look to the larger collective body (government) to provide those services and protections. When it comes to security we pretty well turn over the whole ball of wax to the government and trust them to protect us.
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Originally Posted by Fuzz
So it's a global conspiracy to hide it now? You just explained how the US handles it, in theory, anyway, but would all the other countries with alien materials also have such rigorous protections it is kept secret? I can't buy that.
There you go putting words in people's mouth again. It's not a global conspiracy and no one suggested as much. In fact, it's just the opposite.
If you had bothered to watch the linked videos you would understand the motivation to hide such discoveries and technologies. There is competition between countries and ideologies and this is just another area of possible advantage that nations can have over each other. Imagine the benefit and power your country would have if they could develop craft such as those observed? Imagine the potential military advantage you would have? Just like there was a race to the moon, and just like there was an arms race, there is a race to understand and gain advantage from the recovered technology.
And yes, all countries have rigorous protections in place to safeguard their secrets. The more developed the nation, the more sensitive their information, the more advanced their safeguards are going to be. The more sensitive the information the more complex the safeguards are. This has been the way of governments for as long as these functions have been around. These practices have been shared or copied over the centuries and from country to country. I'm surprised you're even questioning this. I can't believe anyone would even suggest this is not the case and then hide behind a "global conspiracy" claim. That is what doesn't make sense.
I still struggle with the president doesn’t know if we have bodies and materials. I follow the argument that everything is compartmentalized to minimize leakage.
But walk me through why the president wouldn’t know if we have bodies and materials right now. So these videos get reported publicly. The president asks for a threat assessment on these vehicles. He asks if we have any information on the strengths and weaknesses of these vehicles. If we have any information on who is piloting and where they come from. Asks if they have ever taken any hostile actions against citizens How do the answers to those questions that I think a president would naturally ask in order to make informed decisions on what course of actions need to be taken not lead to the president knowing if we have bodies and materials.
And one other thought I’d be interested in your opinion on. If this is top secret US Tech or another countries top secret tech would the president know that? Thinking about it a bit the biggest reason for secrecy from the public being required would be that another state actor has surpassed the US. This is a worse scenario than aliens for confidence in government.
There are many European and South American governments that are actually quite liberal in sharing sightings, information and discussion when it comes to this topic too.
Who is the first one people turn to when #### goes really sideways on grand scale? There is an expectation that our government can protect us, from all possible foes "foreign or domestic."
Ah, but the government does. They are the ones that come in and pick up the pieces. They are the ones that insure you when your insurance company tells you to go #### yourself because the storm was an act of god. The government provides a massive safety blanket for our society and we rely heavily on them. When we can't handle things ourselves we look to the larger collective body (government) to provide those services and protections. When it comes to security we pretty well turn over the whole ball of wax to the government and trust them to protect us.
There you go putting words in people's mouth again. It's not a global conspiracy and no one suggested as much. In fact, it's just the opposite.
If you had bothered to watch the linked videos you would understand the motivation to hide such discoveries and technologies. There is competition between countries and ideologies and this is just another area of possible advantage that nations can have over each other. Imagine the benefit and power your country would have if they could develop craft such as those observed? Imagine the potential military advantage you would have? Just like there was a race to the moon, and just like there was an arms race, there is a race to understand and gain advantage from the recovered technology.
And yes, all countries have rigorous protections in place to safeguard their secrets. The more developed the nation, the more sensitive their information, the more advanced their safeguards are going to be. The more sensitive the information the more complex the safeguards are. This has been the way of governments for as long as these functions have been around. These practices have been shared or copied over the centuries and from country to country. I'm surprised you're even questioning this. I can't believe anyone would even suggest this is not the case and then hide behind a "global conspiracy" claim. That is what doesn't make sense.
I get why a country would do this, should it actually happen. That's pretty basic stuff.
So not a "global conspiracy" but each country having their own alien spacecraft secret. Sorry, that's just too many people to keep it hidden from humanity for so long. You shouldn't be surprised I'd question it, because it's a bafflingly difficult to believe proposition. I think maybe you "want to believe" just a little too hard and ignore obvious weak points in your theories.
I still struggle with the president doesn’t know if we have bodies and materials. I follow the argument that everything is compartmentalized to minimize leakage.
It's a real thing. How would the Secretary of State not know what the security posture was at an embassy? Too much detail for their responsibilities. They have people for that and then that information is sensitive and is need to know. How would they not know where possible black sites would be operating? Beyond the scope of their job and plausible deniability. In government you are only provided information specific to your job and only what you need to know. Curiosity is not a reason for access to information. See what happens when you allow someone like Trump, who does not understand nor care about the norms of government, to have access to sensitive information. Compartmentalization is there for those reasons.
But walk me through why the president wouldn’t know if we have bodies and materials right now. [/QUOTE]
Need to know. Does this information have a bearing on the duties of the office. No. No reason for this information to be shared. Curiosity is not a reason for the release of top secret information regardless of position.
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So these videos get reported publicly. The president asks for a threat assessment on these vehicles. He asks if we have any information on the strengths and weaknesses of these vehicles. If we have any information on who is piloting and where they come from. Asks if they have ever taken any hostile actions against citizens How do the answers to those questions that I think a president would naturally ask in order to make informed decisions on what course of actions need to be taken not lead to the president knowing if we have bodies and materials.
The threat assessment will cover the questions of interest and come from likely the military or intelligence communities, who will already be compartmentalized and working from incomplete information pertaining to the existence of these black programs. The military would be able to answer questions specific to information on their programs, and the intelligence community would be able to answer questions specific to intelligence gathering and analysis, but the information you're digging into would be beyond the scope of the assessment and remain compartmentalized. The president can ask all the questions he wants about the existence of such programs, but unless there is an existential crisis with a need to know, the information is going to be beyond their reach. It is how secrets are kept and how plausible deniability is afforded to the office.
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And one other thought I’d be interested in your opinion on. If this is top secret US Tech or another countries top secret tech would the president know that?
That would be up to the department to share that data and for them to properly handle/release the information as per the classification and handling standards in place. The whistleblowers have suggested that if it were advanced tech that information would be/has been shared with the president and even with other departments in the military where contact has taken place (according to Grush and others this has happened and NDAs are signed by those involved). A recent example was the Chinese weather balloon. That was disclosed through proper assessment and classification procedures (an no, a president cannot just declassify information at his whim).
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Thinking about it a bit the biggest reason for secrecy from the public being required would be that another state actor has surpassed the US. This is a worse scenario than aliens for confidence in government.
This is no doubt a concern and something they would take into consideration in competing the threat assessment from the intelligence community and involving all aspects of information gathering they have (HUMINT, SIGINT, CYBINT, GEOINT, MASINT, and OSINT). The US has a huge advantage in this regard but other countries are catching up. This is where other nation states and their security practices become a point of discussion. Does the US have HUMINT assets or CYBINT products that can be used to confirm or deny the existence of programs such as this by other nations? Do the other nation states have the same to use against the US? Do other nations have the level of compartmentalization the United States leverages?
For example, the CIA handles most clandestine information gathering, but not on US soil. That goes to NSA so the two have similar programs and objectives in many ways, but they operate independently and blindly of each other. Compartmentalization at its most ridiculous. Same can be said of DOJ and law enforcement (FBI) and so on. The systems are setup to maintain secrets, not share them. It's why government operates the way it does and why it can be so inefficient at times.
Now the reason for secrecy is usually not about the release of information but the probable outcomes from the release of information. When Trump shared the photo of the Iranian missile site during his time in office there was a ripple through the intelligence community about it, but not because the information was released. They were more concerned that other nation states would put together how the images and intelligence was acquired. Release of certain information can get people killed and effective programs shut down, consistent with the compromise or assassination of CIA assets shortly after Trump left office and the beginning of documentgate.
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So not a "global conspiracy" but each country having their own alien spacecraft secret. Sorry, that's just too many people to keep it hidden from humanity for so long. You shouldn't be surprised I'd question it, because it's a bafflingly difficult to believe proposition. I think maybe you "want to believe" just a little too hard and ignore obvious weak points in your theories.
That's why there are alliances, like Five Eyes, so nations can work together on collection but rely on a small centralized workgroup to do analysis and such. For example, Canada, the U.S., U.K., Australia and New Zealand all work cooperatively on the recovery of materials with the US being largely responsible for analysis and re-engineering efforts.
I don't think it's too hard to keep anything away from humanity. All you have to do is keep them preoccupied with stupid crap like social media and they will be more focused on that than what is actually happening around them. Plus, when someone does step forward they are ridiculed and marginalized to the point where others think twice about making revelations. Keeping secrets is very easy these days.
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Judging by how CSIS, the RCMP and the government as a whole run in Canada, I think that's evidence enough that if Canada had anything interesting, it wouldn't be a secret.
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