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Old 06-27-2023, 10:27 PM   #701
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Pretty sure I won $100 off you with a "stupid" opinion this season guy
Okay. You haven’t had an original thought that isn’t groupthink defend Flames in your history.

What is your opinion on the trade beyond “who can ever know?”
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Old 06-27-2023, 10:27 PM   #702
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I don't think anyone on either side can say who won right now

Dont the Devil's need to win something to make it worthwhile? If they lose in the first round and he walks or they sign him to a bad deal how is that a win for them?
The real win is that calgary didn't get suckered into overpaying to keep him. I predict this Is his best season for the remainder of his career
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Old 06-27-2023, 10:28 PM   #703
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Yeah that’s definitely possible. I think I’d walk in that instance and see what’s available tomorrow then. Or request a higher pick for a future year. Either or.
If you look at it from the other side
Would you trade Pelletier (perhaps more of an unknown around the league than Sharangovich simply because of games played) plus a third this year for a player in the same age bracket and contract status as Toffoli?
I’m not sure I’d be really ok with that

It takes two after all

After reading all the number (posted in this thread) and the other comparables (size, speed, cost etc). It just seems to me that this is starting to appear to be a pretty decent trade for both teams.
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Old 06-27-2023, 10:29 PM   #704
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I don't know if it's a great trade but in a year the Devil's will likely have no Toffoli and no cup and the Flames will have a player and a prospect

Homerun for them? Let's see
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Old 06-27-2023, 10:29 PM   #705
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Pelletier and a 2nd for a player of Toffolis calibre? Yes.
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Old 06-27-2023, 10:30 PM   #706
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Just to push back on that point, what was Tarasenko last season? Didn't get fetch a couple of prospects a 1st and a 4th, I could be wrong though.

He definitely had a better career than Toffoli, but he wasn't better last year.
Yes, he got more. But it was a TDL trade, when the 2023 draft seems so far away. Teams are more reluctant to part with them now.

Tarasenko was coming off a PPG season the year before and had 29 points in 38 games at the time of the trade, so yes, a bit of an off year but the Blues also retained half his salary, so NYR got him for a $3.75M cap hit (and even less in cash).

It was also a big mistake by NYR and GMs may have now figured that was too much.
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Old 06-27-2023, 10:30 PM   #707
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Okay. You haven’t had an original thought that isn’t groupthink defend Flames in your history.

What is your opinion on the trade beyond “who can ever know?”
Groupthink? He could say you are just as guilty with the negative groupthink crowd. Does that mean you don't have any original thoughts? Some people like the trade, some don't. Some think we should rebuild, some think we should retool. Some are are optimistic and some find the negative in everything. Diversity is ok.
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Old 06-27-2023, 10:32 PM   #708
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Pelletier and a 2nd for a player of Toffolis calibre? Yes.
For one year than UFA is what you are ommitting
That would be a terrible trade for the Flames


In a year the Devil's likely have no cup and no Toffoli (or they have him on a bad contract)
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Old 06-27-2023, 10:33 PM   #709
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That’s not accurate, if you were to go review what I have said about trades over time I will call it how I see it. I have liked some of the trades at the time they were made over time and I have not liked them.

To be honest- it’s not even that I don’t like this trade and again I think depending on what cap space gets saved could improve this quite a bit. My only main contention here that has everyone’s panties in knots is having the audacity to criticize Conroy for not getting a higher pick.
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Old 06-27-2023, 10:33 PM   #710
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His first 50 goals
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Old 06-27-2023, 10:34 PM   #711
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For one year than UFA is what you are ommitting

That would be a terrible trade for the Flames
It sort of depends on the context though. If I thought Toffoli was that winger that would get me a Cup (the way I infer NJ is thinking about it) then yeah, it’s a good trade. For starters, Toffoli has over 70 points last year, scores in clutch moments and does bolster NJ’s offense quite a bit IMO.
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Old 06-27-2023, 10:35 PM   #712
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That’s not accurate, if you were to go review what I have said about trades over time I will call it how I see it. I have liked some of the trades at the time they were made over time and I have not liked them.

To be honest- it’s not even that I don’t like this trade and again I think depending on what cap space gets saved could improve this quite a bit. My only main contention here that has everyone’s panties in knots is having the audacity to criticize Conroy for not getting a higher pick.
Your problem is acting like you know he could have got a higher pick...you don't know
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Old 06-27-2023, 10:36 PM   #713
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It sort of depends on the context though. If I thought Toffoli was that winger that would get me a Cup (the way I infer NJ is thinking about it) then yeah, it’s a good trade. For starters, Toffoli has over 70 points last year, scores in clutch moments and does bolster NJ’s offense quite a bit IMO.
Well there is maybe a 5% chance they win the cup so...I bet in the end it turns out better for the Flames head to head
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Old 06-27-2023, 10:36 PM   #714
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Your problem is acting like you know he could have got a higher pick...you don't know
That’s fair and I’ve acknowledged that. It’s possible this was the best he could get. I am just making some assumptions based on the context and my understanding of deal making in my career, etc. I suspect he could have pressed for more. Again by the looks of general internet consensus I am thinking a lot of people would agree with me from a “fair value” perspective.
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Old 06-27-2023, 10:37 PM   #715
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Well there is maybe a 5% chance they win the cup so...I bet in the end it turns out better for the Flames head to head
Then with this logic the Flames should be rebuilding. And I would agree with you, but that is kinda a different convo.
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Old 06-27-2023, 10:38 PM   #716
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That’s fair and I’ve acknowledged that. It’s possible this was the best he could get. I am just making some assumptions based on the context and my understanding of deal making in my career, etc. I suspect he could have pressed for more. Again by the looks of general internet consensus I am thinking a lot of people would agree with me from a “fair value” perspective.
How many NHL trades have you contributed to in your career?
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Old 06-27-2023, 10:38 PM   #717
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His first 50 goals
Michael Frolik the second. Backlund is staying and will be announced captain
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Old 06-27-2023, 10:39 PM   #718
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That’s fair and I’ve acknowledged that. It’s possible this was the best he could get. I am just making some assumptions based on the context and my understanding of deal making in my career, etc. I suspect he could have pressed for more. Again by the looks of general internet consensus I am thinking a lot of people would agree with me from a “fair value” perspective.
Well we can look at the history on internet concensus

Like who won the trade deadline or the summer ect.

Didn't hear many Vegas mentions
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Old 06-27-2023, 10:40 PM   #719
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Yeah Sam Bennett was a healthy scratch for the Flames multiple times too... doesn't mean a guys career is done
I can't believe you went there

You are a closet Bennett fan!
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Old 06-27-2023, 10:40 PM   #720
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having the 3rd back means we can offer sheet someone in the $4.5mm to $6.5mm range (1st and 3rd) or go up to $8.5mm (adding our 2nd).
Hmm, lets offer sheet Bouchard just to screw with Edmonton!!
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